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by jerf 1268 days ago
It's a bit of a colloquialism, I think, but the idea is, all of your biological processes are constantly generating entropy.It is constantly tending toward a system in equilibrium, as physical systems do, but you are essentially made out of non-equilibrium systems. You need the water to be here, but not there. Your nervous system is based on electrical gradients that, left to their own devices, will normalize. Every cell has an electric potential gradient it maintains (google "cell proton gradient"). All of these things and thousands more are constantly breaking down and require energy to maintain. Basically, imagine the difference between a recently dead body that just attained ambient temperature and a living one. Characterizing all those differences would be more than the work of a lifetime.

A super abstract, but physically valid, way of expressing that is that your body is constantly "generating entropy" and it needs to consume energy to fight it. "Pumping out that entropy" is what the body is doing when it takes in energy and uses it to maintain all those gradients.

Life in general may not use organic chemistry, or chemistry at all, but the advantage of this level of abstraction is that any life form (in this universe) will have to do something to "pump out the entropy". It is essentially by definition a deviation from the equilibrium state around it, and it will require energy to maintain.

The point I am making here is that there must be some ability to pump out the entropy faster than it is being generated, or pushed in to the system. Otherwise those gradients and variations from equilibrium will be erased. Inside a sun, there is so much heat energy being pressed in to the system that it is challenging to imagine how any conceivable structure could push it back out again.

This boils down to the observation that "Holy cow, the sun is, like, REALLY HOT!", but, you know, wrapped up in a different formalism that allows us to get past "But what if, like, there's something that could deal with that?". You see this online, the challenge that someone needs to prove that there's no way to build something that could live in the sun. If you don't have thermodynamics as a tool, this isn't even necessarily unreasonable. But thermodynamics gives us a principled way to turn around and say "Any such system would have to have this and that and the other property, and it's really hard to see how plasma and magnetic fields in such a violent environment could have that." It's so not-close that it's not really plausible.

ChatGPT may be referring to the general conceptual space/idea that you can't just build a machine to "reverse entropy" trivially. The most common example of this is that you can't just build an anti-microwave, that remotely cools things by shooting radiation at it in some easy manner. It is sooooo much easier to add entropy than remove it; that is definitely true. In fact, it's kinda a key element of my point here. But you can pump entropy out of a system, in some ways, with some machines, in some manners; since you are literally such a machine yourself, you are an existence proof of that.

2 comments

I think there might be fundamental tradeoffs at play. An information processing system acting in a cold local environment will have the ability to do far more complex computations with more reliability (thus, in a way, be much more likely to exhibit complex internal behavior) but will also be limited in how much work it can perform onto the outside, thus how much it can recognizably output from the computation. While the opposite will be true at higher temperatures.
I am well aware of that. It is not the anti-microwave that people commonly ask about.
I don’t understand. It’s remote cooling. It even uses electromagnetic radiation. What’s the gap?