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by seanw444 1268 days ago
As with most issues, this one can be reduced to collectivist vs. individualist. I'm primarily an individualist. Hence my opinion.
3 comments

That reduction is lossy. There's a large middle ground where free individuals make agreements with each other to cooperate in ways that make them all better off.

The previous commenter's handle alludes to one possible item, crystal meth: that's a substance that doesn't seem to have any redeeming value, and a lot of risk for other cooperative endeavors. So perhaps we should all agree not to traffic in it. (And if we later find a good use for it that stance can be revised.) Mushrooms have a very different calculus, and all that said I agree in general that the drug war has been very badly conceived and executed.

Not to take from the (very real I am afraid) dangers of substance abuse (starting with alcohol and sugar, of course) - I am curious: who you trust more to decide for the individual: the person itself or the larger social group?
Well said. Nanny state vs the sovereign individual.
Yes, and the world consists only of responsible sovereign individuals, who need no guidance at all.

I refer to the 18th century gin craze, here's an impressive print: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/William_...

This picture is a like a caricature of satire for poking fun at prohibitionists, complete with the think of the children meme in forefront with the falling toddler. I love it.
In addition to sovereign individuals the world also have only responsible nanny states, who would not abuse their citizens.
An individualist with no definition of an individual is quite useless.

In particular, classical liberalism depends on rational actors. Even in the most liberal countries, there are ways to declare particular individuals as wards of another (disability, elderly, children, etc). Without rationality, the basis of classical liberal philosophy disintegrates.

So if we want to be consistent as a liberal individualist, we need to place rationality on quite a high pedestal, which means at least making concessions that those taking drugs ought to be temporarily at least deprived of particular civil rights.

> In particular, classical liberalism depends on rational actors

It does not; classical liberalism is an ideology that depends on a particular structure of moral precepts of rights, independently of how people might make use of them.

The utilitarian, rather than deontological, argument for laissez-faire capitalism depends on the rational (in a very particular technical sense) actors, but this is (while people who identify as “classical liberals” overlap considerably with rhetorical, at least, advocates of laissez-faire capitalism) not the same thing.