[imtyler]

My nextdoor neighbor sold their house last year and now it's an Airbnb. Despite the fact that I live in a house in a normal residential neighborhood, I'm now forced to live next to a hotel. And I have no say in the matter. Super frustrating.

I've read people talking about how Airbnb screwed the host or the guest. But few people talk about how it screws the neighbors.

[ultrarunner]

My next door neighbor also rents out her house. She has 5 others she does the same in. These are long term rentals, which means when the tenant is bad it's bad for me long term. We got new neighbors last year, and while they struggle socially they're respectful and it's a huge quality of life improvement.

Our neighbors on the other side, unfortunately, own their home. This means I'm forced to live next to (depending on the day of the week), a live concert venue, a muscle car engine noise appreciation celebration, frat parties, and/or a farm (they had a goat for a week ?).

There's nothing anyone can (or will) do about any of these things, and no one's checking their papers to determine if ignoring the noise is your only recourse. The only way to attempt to improve the situation is show respect and hope it's eventually reciprocated. This is just part of living around other humans. The systems in place to mitigate these kinds of petty conflicts aren't taken seriously, whether the rental is long or short term, or the property tax kind.

[rootusrootus]

Every time someone online complains loudly about an HOA, here is why people still choose to live in neighborhoods with HOAs.

[x86x87]

I'm gonna disagree with this one. People chose to put uo with HOAs because 1) most new developments have them 2) SFH w/ HOA are more expensive

[rootusrootus]

For every HOA that gets a Reddit post complaining about unreasonable behavior, there's a dozen others that just effectively keep people from turning their front yard into a wrecking yard, and probably a hundred others that don't enforce anything at all but just keep the common areas mowed.

[into_infinity]

One of the problems is that you don't know what you're buying. You might end up with a reasonable HOA or a terrible one. Even if it looks reasonable today, it might change tomorrow.

Another problem is that HOAs are the worst possible size of a government. They're large enough that you're in the minority, but small enough that they don't have anything else to preoccupy themselves with but how you're using your own property.

I've heard that "just imagine what kinds of horrors happen without HOAs" argument many times over, but... I live in the Bay Area in a densely-packed but older neighborhood without a HOA, and I'm yet to witness the terrible consequences of my neighbors' supposed recklessness. Yeah, the houses are painted in different colors and picket fences have different styles and heights, but I think I can live with that.

Most people are reasonable. When you bump into people who are truly unreasonable, a HOA is unlikely to save you. How peaceful and pretty a neighborhood is depends largely on socioeconomic factors (not just wealth, but also the prevalence of problems such as addiction). It just so happens that many new and expensive neighborhoods have HOAs, but that doesn't mean that HOAs are to be credited for good outcomes - or that they will be able to prevent the decline of such communities if the economic climate changes.

[birdyrooster]

The associations are often mismanaged horribly because they are mostly lead by people that just want to use the power to get the changes they want to their property, and sometimes (this is not rare) the board will use lawyers to write letters coercing behavior which may be against the HoA constitution, also sometimes to save a buck they will operate based on policy which was voted by the board that is unconstitutional and has not been amended by owners. The only way to rectify this is to put your real life on hold and create a political movement against the board and/or hire attorneys to get them to settle, litigate, or start a class suit, which might I remind you will probably retaliate against you and waste more of your time. Meanwhile the HoA's liability insurance premiums will go through the roof from hiring attorneys to defend themselves and so will your HoA fees. Lawyers love HoAs.

Have heard about this from friends and family more than once.. it would be comical if it didn't impede their ability to live so much.

You may as well be renting from them. No, thanks!

[mint2]

> enforce anything at all but just keep the common areas mowed.

HOA style Large grass areas and office park landscaping mcdonaldifies America and is a travesty for the environment and water use.

Select grass areas for actual usage are okay but HOAs default to grass everywhere and bland non-native landscaping. And beige everything.

[fma]

My county has laws about turning your front yard into a wrecking yard...def should look into it if you experience severely unmaintained yards or overloaded with trash with unmovable cars.

But whether I cut my grass every 2 weeks or every 3 weeks, or god forbird I decide to have a vegetable garden on the southern side of my house (covenance says must be backyard)...that's HOA realm.

[josephcsible]

I have 113 potions. 100 are just Gatorade in a fancy bottle, 12 de-age you by a year, and the last one turns you into a vegetable forever. Should I be allowed to give people one at random to drink?

[ultrarunner]

Specifically chose this neighborhood because there is no HOA. The goat/sheep/whatever was hilarious and was gone within a week. The point is that just because I don't live by an AirBnB (that I know of) doesn't mean I'm guaranteed to have no noise from neighbors. The renters before honestly did suck a lot, but if they wouldn't turn down their bass, and the cops couldn't be bothered to do anything about it, I doubt an HOA would have helped. I'd rather invest in quiet windows than live out the many many horror stories of my friends who live in HOAs.

[imtyler]

>"The only way to attempt to improve the situation is show respect and hope it's eventually reciprocated."

With who? I don't have a neighbor, I have an endless string of rotating strangers. I understand that bad neighbors have always existed, but that's not what's happening in my specific situation.

Anyone and everyone has potential access to the house 30 feet or so from which I sleep. Anyone and everyone at any time. It's a big change.

[squintychino]

This isn't the same thing as short term rentals thru AirBnB. Long term tenants are part of the rental market, not the hospitality market.

[rcpt]

The house next door to you was de facto rezoned from residential to hotel.

In the US, and California specifically, any kind of zoning change is met with pitchforks. If your neighbor tried to build an apartment and you didn't like it you could have easily held up the project for years.

Airbnb figured a way to rezone property without invoking the wrath of local busybodies. Kudos to them. But at the same time, if you live in a place that takes zoning seriously then Airbnb shouldn't be allowed.

[kjs3]

But few people talk about how it screws the neighbors.

This so much.

There's a neighbor on the street with a 'unique' house who decided the way she would make money is AirBnB'ing it to film companies. So...a weekend or two a month (usually Th-Mo), we would have 50-60 cars parked wherever they wanted on our narrow street and sidestreets. We would have vans and delivery vehicles block our driveways and sometimes the whole street for as long as they wanted. They would drive over lawns to position trucks because the street is too narrow for a 20+ foot cargo truck to back into the driveway to unload. They would film until 3, 4, sometimes 5 in the morning with loud noise, dozens of people and floodlights. If we said anything, they would mob us and start filming us trying to get us to lose our tempers. Whenever the cops showed up, they would shut down and play nice until they left, and then crank back up. And every one of them didn't get the required city permits until after we complained.

Lovely people in the film industry. /s

The city has regulations against such abusive behavior but not the resources to enforce, and no real recourse when the film companies basically gave the city the middle finger. They're going to be gone in a couple of days so screw those pesky neighbors. So we became the squeaky wheel to get some action. We eventually had to get a lawyer to get this shut down. And you bet there's a bunch of us at the city council meetings lobbying for better enforcement. It looks like we'll get some new regs passed with more teeth.

And, of course, AirBnB didn't care one bit.

[jiggywiggy]

Come to Amsterdam. Its city wide hobby to shit on Airbnb by residents and complain to newspapers and city. They even had an official city sponsored online participation board dedicated to complaining about airbnb. And it was pretty successful. Now so much registration is required to rent on Airbnb and max days that pretty much only professionals are left. They also gave like 10k fines to citizens who forgot a few things or days in the registration process. So the pendulum swung the other way here.

[cycrutchfield]

So housing is cheap now, right?

Right?

[tekknik]

Housing prices are more complex than that, but it’s inarguable that more houses on the market means cheaper prices.

Out of curiosity, do you own properties specifically to rent on short term rental sites?

[cycrutchfield]

No, I own a property that I exclusively rent long-term. So I don’t have an interest in short term rentals, except as a traveler that likes to use them.

[latchkey]

I am the opposite and I get asked about this a lot. I bought a condo in a building (and neighborhood) that is almost all STR's (near the beach). I'm the only person who actually lives in my building full time.

I enjoy the fact that I get new neighbors all the time because, quite simply... in the past, I've lived next door to people I didn't like at all. When that happens, what can you do, move? This way, if there is an unruly renter, I just call the owner of the condo and they deal with it (only happened once in the last year). Worst case, they leave on their on in a few days.

[robg]

You have a say - go to your town’s planning and zoning commission, find others with similar concerns, and force votes on the legality of a full-time hotel next door.

[everybodyknows]

In my town, stays of less than 30 days are illegal, and there's a 10% tax. And yet, AirBnb and VRBO show dozens of listings. So if the rental contract itself violates city code, surely no tax is being paid either.

This puts me off the idea of ever renting out my own place, because I would then have to choose between feeling like a sucker, or being a criminal.

[bittercynic]

Same situation here, and I was surprised to learn that my city doesn't seem to have any rules against this.

So far most renters have been friendly or kept to themselves. Some were noisy, and some left dozens of cigarette butts on the sidewalk and street, and for the past couple weeks the place has been empty. No one has even come by to put away the trash bins.

The owner has over a dozen houses like this, and I really think it's a bad thing that these houses are not available to people who want to live in them.

[cbsks]

You absolutely have a say in the matter, but it’s possible that on one will listen. Talk to your local city council person (or local equivalent) and see if they are willing to ban short term rentals in areas that are not zoned for it. My city did that and it’s pretty great.

[jeremyjh]

I’m genuinely interested to hear what are the specific harms you have suffered due to this.

[oplav]

I used to live in a 4 unit apartment in SF. One of the units in the building was a full time Airbnb. On several occasions, the different Airbnb renters parked in the wrong spot in our small garage, which disrupted the parking situation for the non-Airbnb tenants in the unit. On another occasion, a renter got locked out of the front gate. I watched from my window as they bent the gate bars so they could open the gate without using the key. When I went down to the gate to ask them what they were doing, they denied damaging the property.

Where I live now is area of all single family homes. One house on my street is also a full time Airbnb. There have been fewer issues, but there was one occasion where some people rented the house, threw a party in the house, shots were fired, and bullets went through a neighboring house. There have never been issues at this level in the neighborhood, so this was out of the ordinary.

Not all short term, full time Airbnbs are disrespectful. Not all long term, non-Airbnb neighbors are respectful. But IMO, with non-Airbnb neighbors, you have a better chance of working something out since they are there for the long haul.

[rootusrootus]

Is it difficult to imagine? Living next to a regular long-term rental has some of the same issues, AirBNB short term rentals just magnify that. Personally, one of the best things I ever did to improve my quality of life was move to a newly constructed mid/upper neighborhood where all houses are owner-occupied. It's amazing how much better people act and treat their property when it's actually their own.

[IIsi50MHz]

Yes, it can be difficult to imagine for some people, based on their lived experiences. Those who have observed little or no unwanted behaviours from short-term renters wild tend to assume "It works." or "It works the vast majority' of the time.". Some combinations of hosts, their rules, and guests can be successful and completely non-problematic. I, having lived some problematic places long before AirBnB existed, sympahise with your experience. I've been fortunate to see primarily successes.

[miguelazo]

Gee, how about having a parade of random people showing up at all hours of the day/night just to start? The erosion of community. Further commodification of housing so that only the rich and upper middle class can buy a house in any city?

[thefounder]

I think the ownership is not encouraged anymore.

Instead we have social mobility so that we can move anytime when better opportunities arise. That may be a good or a bad thing depending on which side you are.

[rootusrootus]

Moving every time a better opportunity comes up is a privilege enjoyed by a small section of the population. The vast majority of people move rarely, and when they do move it's usually within the same locality.

[ghaff]

Even for people who can, family (spouse, kids in school, nearby relatives, etc.), friends, and so forth tend to make moving cities a pretty significant decision at some point.

[thefounder]

It's a cultural issue. Give it 1-2 generations and people won't care that much about nearby relatives, friends etc.

[tekknik]

Without home ownership you are throwing away a large portion of the money you may make in your life. Even if you move frequently it still makes sense to buy so long as you’re not hitting the tip of the market.

[zbrozek]

That last point - that housing is too expensive - is not something that airbnb causes or can fix. That's a supply side problem and the solution is housing construction. It may marginally exacerbate the symptom by providing liquidity.

[jerjerjer]

It removes liquidity from housing market, by repurposing flats/houses into hotels.

[zbrozek]

It's creating liquidity, just not the kind you value. It's liquidity of short term housing rather than long term housing.

[miguelazo]

Liquidity for short term housing is valuable to who? Do you think most people here or otherwise care about speculators? We don't.

[tekknik]

Ok, then more accurately it’s moving liquidity. The next question is which is more valuable to society?

[moloch-hai]

A cabin across the street from me was an AirBnB rental: very loud parties all weekend, running long after midnight. Then COVID came, and now AirBnB has gone down the toilet, so the problem has not returned. Yet.

[streetdumpling]

curious where you're located? AFAIK Airbnb now banned all parties but it's hard to enforce

[mythhouse]

does the town/city not have noise ordinances ?

[nubinetwork]

Good luck finding a bylaw officer to enforce it, I've made many complaints in my city only to be told there's only one person and they never showed up... and this is in a city of 700k.

[rr808]

Aside from the annoyance of the lifestyle of tourists vs residents, you miss out on having a normal neighbor who you can build a relationship over time with. Our neighbors keep a key, water plants while we're away, babysit our kids, generally look out for each other.

[HarryHirsch]

Airbnb greatly contributed to the housing shortage in Vermont.

[seattle_spring]

Is there some unbiased literature you can share that demonstrates this conclusively?

[HarryHirsch]

Long-term rentals getting converted to short-term rentals in a constrained, inelastic market drives up prices, prices are set at the margin. You don't publications for that, that's just a basic fact.

[seattle_spring]

If it’s a basic fact then surely there is literature that backs it up?

[tptacek]

Work with your municipality to pass an Airbnb ordinance. We have one; it limits the number of nights you can list your house for, requires a shall-issue license, an insurance certificate, and inspections, forbids rentals of less than 24 hours, and charges a fee for non-owner-occupied buildings.

[vlunkr]

I tried to buy a house that was instead bought as an Airbnb. I'm still annoyed, but on the bright side it looks like it's almost never booked.

[adql]

How's that different that having a neighbour in hot love with his lawnmover at 6AM ?

[ceejayoz]

You can potentially come to a solution/agreement with a single neighbor. Less so if you’ve got a brand new neighbor every 2-3 days.

[robg]

Noise ordinances.

[thefounder]

Do they work?

[ericpruitt]

I've read they're taken very seriously in some places like Germany and Japan, but in my experience, a lot of people in the USA won't bother reporting noise violations because they know the chances of them being enforced and/or investigated in a timely manner is low.

[nibbleshifter]

Enforcement in Germany is quite funny. Lived there for some years.

If you have a problem with noisy neighbours you basically must make a "noise diary" with date/time/description of the noise over a period of time before anyone will give a shit.

Even then, enforcement varies wildly. Seems to depend where you are, etc.

The best person to complain to is building management, but even then, they vary.

The next best thing to do (and the most German solution) is leaving passive aggressive notes on the buildings noticeboard.

[Frondo]

It depends, of course, but yes, I have had noise complaints addressed by some kind of code enforcement officer (i.e. unarmed, but able to write citations.)

[prepend]

> And I have no say in the matter. Super frustrating

What say should you have in how your neighbor uses their house?

You can live in an HOA with covenants that restrict renting, but that has their own set of problems.

[fenesiistvan]

Here in Romania there are different rules if you rent your house this way (hotel style). You have to pay much more for the administration/utilities costs, which has some compensation effect

[PaulHoule]

One thing I haven't liked about AirBNB is being told that I have to keep my status as a guest a secret from the neighbors.

[kwhitefoot]

Isn't this a violation of planning law (zoning in the US)?

[alphabettsy]

Why would or should you have a say in what the property owner next door does?

What does having a say look like?

[duxup]

Cities and etc have zoning laws because it does matter what kind of activity happens next door.

I lived in a town house association where the unit’s being rented were the source of noise, trash, crime, etc.

People renting often don’t care as much for the neighborhood/ locals and they can move on at will. And you'd be surprised how much random citizen land lords are terrible at just being land lords.

After the numbers of rentals were reduced (and background checks required) the neighborhood improved greatly. It was like turning off a light switch on noise, litter, crime, etc...

[rootusrootus]

Why should you have the unchecked right to disturb the peace of your next door neighbor?

[alphabettsy]

You don’t have the unchecked right to disturb your neighbor anywhere in the US as far as I know. Who was suggesting anyone should?

[Mystery-Machine]

Who tf claimed that? It's two completely different questions.

The issue is not Airbnb or not. The issue is guests etiquette and difficulty to penalize bad/loud/disrespectful people.

[rcpt]

I generally agree with you. But unless you're allowed to knock down your house and build a 10 story apartment in it's place then the argument kind of falls flat.

[dns_snek]

Would you oppose a smelly wastewater treatment plant being built on the previously residential property right next to you? That's why they should get a say.

[alphabettsy]

That’s not even remotely what we’re talking about.

[dns_snek]

Is it not? I think it's very comparable, you attempted to appeal to the freedoms of property owners but there are laws the govern the use of land wherever you go.

[cycrutchfield]

Why do you care if your neighbor has guests stay over at their house?

[kennend3]

I take it you have never experienced an AirBnB neighbour?

The people behind me have done it a few times. How can i tell they had "guests" over?

I find beer bottles, coke cans and garbage on MY property. There is the obvious noise from the late night "pool parties" as well.

Normally people dont care what their neighbours do, but when it starts to impact others, people start to care.

[cycrutchfield]

How is that different from you being neighbors with somebody that hosts parties?

[dns_snek]

The average person doesn't host a pool parties 100+ days out of a year as an Airbnb unit might. Filing complaints against a single noisy neighbor would also be a lot easier than doing it against people who will be gone by the time anyone looks into the matter.

[cycrutchfield]

The complaint would be against the property owner, no?

[ocdtrekkie]

There's a big difference between dealing with something from a neighbor's property once in a while, trash ending up in my property, guests not following neighborhood rules for parking, etc., and having to deal with it every single day.

Neighborhoods have a lot of societal norms, my house has frequently been referred to as "the rental" even though I've lived here for years and the prior tenants also all had long runs here... even being a rental house in the neighborhood is considered strange here.