[pclmulqdq]

The breakeven milage is depressingly far. Electric cars take a lot more stuff and much more polluting manufacturing processes to be made.

Around 2016, the total carbon footprint of a gas car was lower than a Tesla, pretty much for its entire life. It's getting better and better as energy gets cleaner, though.

[Kranar]

The EPA does a good job of debunking the persistent myth you're spreading about the manufacturing process of electric cars.

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myt...

[culi]

that link doesn't actually directly address the point brought up though. It uses GREET for its number though and others have used that model to answer it, but the the estimates vary widely based on inputted assumptions. E.g.[0]

Tesla Model Y (EV) vs Honda CR-V (gasoline):

  9,200 miles if the grid is 100% hydroelectric
  89,000 miles if the grid is 100% coal

[0]: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lifeti...

[lucideer]

Everyone cites this EPA piece with heavy use of the word "typically" throughout.

The gp has made two statements:

1) that manufacturing is more polluting.

This is confirmed by your EPA link - the graph shows EVs are ~ twice as polluting in this area.

> Some studies have shown that making a typical EV can create more carbon pollution than making a gasoline car. This is because of the additional energy required to manufacture an EV’s battery.

2) that in 2016, the breakeven wasn't met.

Your EPA link states figures are from 2020. Obviously the breakeven is going to vary greatly by region depending on grid mix, but renewables in the US mix used in the EPA figures has grown ~33% between 2016 & 2020 so the difference isn't going to be small here.

The gp's line may be a myth on technicalities, but not a particularly binary right-wrong one. It's recently been a close enough call to be worthy of discussion, rather than the dogmatic claims of dishonesty in the replies.

[pclmulqdq]

I suppose the knives have come out to "debunk" the meaning of the word "depressingly."

Personally, I did the math on a Tesla purchase in 2020 given my own climate (very cold), driving patterns (90% high-efficiency highway driving), and energy mix. The end result was somewhere between 50k-100k miles to break even compared to a small, fuel-efficient Honda.

Keep in mind that a Tesla is a comparatively big car, and if you don't want to haul around that much car, you don't have to - estimates in the literature tend to compare cars of a similar "class," when your personal alternatives may be outside that class.

Also, the Reuters folks (and the EPA) are a bit optimistic and fall on the low end of published estimates I have seen for the carbon footprints of electric cars.

However, keep in mind that there's a huge variance here and many of the factors swing both ways: comparing a Tesla model X to a Honda pilot in SoCal (warm climate and tons of green energy) for a commuter (mostly city driving in traffic) may break even at 5000 miles or less.

[ajross]

What's the conversion between "depressingly" and "miles"? What you're saying is untrue, but you don't provide a cite so I don't know what to refute.

[pclmulqdq]

This is an intentionally vague statement because "depressingly" means "between 5,000 and 200,000 depending on your circumstances and alternatives, and whether you take a high or low estimate of the additional pollution involved in EV manufacturing."

[MuffinFlavored]

So is it safe to safe that the average Tesla buyer/"consumer" is "virtue signaling" that they are actually contributing a measurable change towards climate change but instead just doing something trendy? Granted, the cars have "good tech" (fake full-self-driving claims or not).

[recursive]

Not at all. No gas stations and no oil changes is a real quality of life improvement, and would be even if Teslas ran on pure coal and orphans.

[cokeandpepsi]

I don't drive but IMO there's a lot of reasons to not want to use gasoline beyond just 'the environment'

[Kranar]

Never take what people on this site say at face value. If someone is unwilling to provide sources, it's usually a sign they are hiding something and you should put in some effort to independently verify their claims with reputable sources.

Doing so will produce a wealth of sources that all point to OP being misinformed on this issue.

[MuffinFlavored]

as in I'm misinformed or somebody else?