[gambiting]

As a Pole, I'm very much nervous about the fact that China is not outright denouncing the aggression on Ukraine, and instead keeps promising tighter alliance with Russia. It could be just that they want to reap all the benefits of Russian resources by being the only place that will really trade with them in any capacity, but if they start supplying Russians with weapons and pushing towards escalating the conflict.....who knows what will happen. I really don't think a conflict with NATO is completely off the table, as suicidal as it would be for Russia(and everyone else). And with China's backing, they could be emboldened to do something that will push everyone over the edge.

[petre]

China supplying Russia with weapons is probably not going to happen. Not if they want to do any commerce with the US, UK and Australia, NZ and probably the EU. The Chinese, including chairman Xi are anything but stupid. They want cheap Russian resources and food, they want to buy and replicate some Soviet tech, so they are playing Russia with the cooperation card. The Chinese also have big investments in Ukraine's agricultural sector which Russia is screwed with, like the Nikolaev grain and sunflower oil terminal. So far they've avoided outright bombing the COFCO investments, but the blockade meant threatening China's food supplies.

[oliwarner]

I mean, aren't they still currently engaged in the genocide of the Uyghurs? Forcing them into work camps, breaking their spiritual freedoms, and relocating communities to forcibly dilute their unique genetic makeup? And the West did what?

China is building bases around the South China Sea, pushing borders back, commandeering fishing rights, making a claim on Taiwan and their territories, and pushing very close to US naval support in the area. What has the West done?

We're paralysed by our inability to build stuff, and our unwillingness to go against the electorate and actually stop them buying all the Chinese tat that they do. Our reliance on their mineral mining and processing means cutting them out means far worse than a recession in the short term. It would take two decades to even come close to replacing China and at an unimaginable construction cost because much of the world doesn't even make its own steel any more. And China has links, they own significant portions of Africa's mining rights.

China are untouchable and their military and their nukes have nothing to do with it. China has real power. If you ever want to imagine the end of the world, imagine what happens if we can't buy cheap shit from China and follow the thread through to a conclusion.

---

But why would they help Russia? That's probably a better avenue of thought. Russia has crazy territory, and resources without the real means to explore of extract.

Russia could make it worth their while.

[petre]

The West won't do much, unless it's in their interest.

The latest developments already complicated the getting cheap shit from China part.

[skinnymuch]

Western capitalism and imperialism has destroyed and killed so many lives. On par with anything China has done except in much higher quantity.

Look at the Kurds, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Iran, Korea, Vietnam, Yemen, Palestine, Egypt, Pakistan, Central America, South America, Africa. Look at the IMF. People like Fred Hampton, MLK, murdered by the West.

> If you ever want to imagine the end of the world, imagine what happens if we can't buy cheap shit from China and follow the thread through to a conclusion.

The west should stop exploiting all the poorer countries. Capitalism sucks. If the west can’t live without exploiting other people, the west doesn’t deserve comfy lives.

[hdjjhhvvhga]

> Yugoslavia

Although I agree with your sentiment in general, I don't like when people lump Yugoslavia with the rest. The West didn't start that war, it effectively ended it. They did what they failed to do in Rwanda.

You could say 'it's not their job, if people like killing each other let them kill themselves.' But it wasn't so. There were aggressors and there were victims. There is something sinister in watching people die when crying for your help just because you don't want to get involved. So while cases like Iraq and Afghanistan are clear-cut - these were just acts of bloody aggression fueled by feelings of revenge - Yugoslavia (and a few others on your list) are not.