[meltyness]

Has anyone else ceased rooting their phone?

It has begun to seem like an unnecessary risk, with the appearance of Android policies necessitating VPN Hotspot make manipulations to nftables, (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=be.mygod.vpnho...), trusting Magisk, going without Clockwork Mod on many platforms, eschewing security updates.

What benefits are you guys reaping from taking root, these days?

[dur-randir]

  - TitaniumBackup
  - ability to monitor battery consumption
  - some dpi evasion apps (they sometimes work where no vpn gets through)
  - packet capture
  - Macrodroid
  - view wifi passwords
  - edit gps.conf, wifi configs, add custom root certs, change default font, etc
  - ssl cert unpinner
  - call recording
  - install Youtube Vanced over original one
  - allow screenshots from any app
  - forbid quick tiles access from lock screen (holy crap, why not all roms have this option??)
  - block custom wakelocks
  - allow app versions downgrade without uninstalling them

You see, half of my phone's capabilities are locked because of "reasons" by Google. But it's me who owns the phone, not them.

[rkagerer]

Can it stop Google Play Protect from removing permissions on apps you haven't used in a while (while still leaving scanning intact)?

Unlike most people, I pay attention to and carefully configure permissions for my apps when I install them. Only to have Google tear down all that hard work a few months later :-S.

Others also feel this pain:

https://support.google.com/android/thread/159501058/how-do-i...

Not sure why the stock app hasn't got a Disable checkbox for that feature, wondering if there's a LineageOS-friendly equivalent that does.

[dur-randir]

Yeah, I know your pain. What's worse, there is/was bug in some roms/GP versions which reset this setting upon reboot. Ugh.

I don't know how to turn this misfeature off. Lineage just has a generic slider on a per-app basis, but it still requires revisiting each apps' settings page.

It should be possible with lsposed, but I haven't found such a module.

[qwertox]

You can deactivate this feature on a per-app basis.

[josephcsible]

Yes, but you'll have to do it for every app you ever install, one by one.

[rkagerer]

And unfortunately there's a several seconds long wait for the screen to refresh in between each one (at least on my phone and others' I've seen).

[thargor90]

Be careful with Titanium backup. It cannot handle several modern Android things properly. (E.g. proper SE Linux file properties)

I learned the hard way after the fact...

[dur-randir]

It handled my recent transition flawlessly, but is there anything better?

[Anon1096]

The modern version is https://f-droid.org/packages/com.machiav3lli.backup/

[bakugo]

Neo Backup and Swift Backup are my go-tos. First is free and open source, second is closed source and some features are locked behind paying but it's pretty cheap and feels more polished (only supports keeping one backup at a time though, unfortunately, and you can't browse backup files because they're forcefully encrypted).

[geo-matik]

Half of these I have with my unrooted custom ROM. Beside, for most you only need root once and can remove it afterwards.

[TwoNineFive]

This is a weirdly arrogant authoritarian attitude you have against other's using their devices.

By using that unrooted custom ROM, it's not like root doesn't exist anymore, you just don't have it. The people who built the ROM have root, not you. They own your phone. It's their phone, not yours.

Having access to a root shell isn't bad, or dangerous, or a security risk. Not having means not having ownership of the device.

[geo-matik]

I had to laugh at your first sentence, that incendiary reply is almost comical.

[dur-randir]

Even if a single use case requires root, I still need root on device, no way around that.

[inyorgroove]

TitaniumBackup still working fine for you? Last time I tried to restore apps on Lineage 18.1 recently in the last year most restored apps crashed until I wiped their data/cache in the settings. This basically makes Titanium a glorified app installer, mostly defeats the purpose.

[dur-randir]

The only problem I've encountered is when rolling back updates for some apps - they'd crash after restoring them from TB, so I have to uninstall them first and only then restore. But I have a fairly conservative set of apps.

[Georgelemental]

Stock Android allows viewing Wi-Fi passwords these days

[TwoNineFive]

Privacy and autonomy. If I don't have root then someone else owns it, and by extension, me.

Have zero cloud dependence. Nobody has my data but me. I pay nothing and give up nothing.

My phone is a linux box. I can ssh to it any time I want to get a shell. It has a permanent reverse ssh shell and OpenVPN connection out to my other systems. And no, this has almost no impact on power usage (if done correctly).

Real filesystem access without restrictions. This allows for full rsync backups and restores of any app and any data on the phone. I built a script that lets me easily backup and restore individual apps and even move/copy apps between Android devices. I also sync a variety of files on a regular basis (music, pictures, ebooks,...)

tcpdump to capture packets. I actually do this every couple of weeks/months, but it's not something I do regularly.

Call recording that actually works is impossible without root. skvalex is the best.

Adblocking, Bouncer, real screenshots in any app, real firewalling, disabling Doze and other stupid power savings that breaks shit, and a lot more.

[meltyness]

no way, lmao... doze is the pinnacle -- the absolute zenith of software engineering, and has barely been implicated in any lethal car accidents.

[karlicoss]

I'm rooting to get access to my own data (typically in sqlite databases in protected /data/data partition). Then I feed it into HPI (Human Programming Interface) [1], and from that it gets into my plaintext search system [2] or promnesia [3]

[1] https://github.com/karlicoss/HPI#readme

[2] https://beepb00p.xyz/pkm-search.html#personal_information

[3] https://beepb00p.xyz/promnesia.html

[terminal_d]

Grasp is an invaluable tool for me! Thank you so much for developing it!

[4cao]

> What benefits are you guys reaping from taking root, these days?

On stock Android 12+ (LineageOS 19+), superuser access is necessary even to customize the default color scheme. (Except on Google Pixel devices, which have the UI for this built-in: but that's proprietary, not part of AOSP.)

The most common use cases would be easily installing and updating apps from third-party stores (such as F-Droid through their Privileged Extension) [1] and ad blocking.

1. https://f-droid.org/packages/org.fdroid.fdroid.privileged/

[deng]

If you install lineageos from microg

https://lineage.microg.org/

then F-Droid will already be installed with system extensions and you won't need root.

[4cao]

Being "rooted" can mean different things, so I'm answering in the broadest sense.

You're right of course. You don't need actual superuser access to the live system to make it work (only through recovery). And, as is the case with LineageOS for MicroG, it can already be integrated into the custom OS.

Thing is, when you start doing such things, the next step is often "rooting" the device anyway, so that you can hide what is considered being "rooted" (which can be as little as running any custom OS) from APKs with "root detection" that otherwise refuse to run.

[LanternLight83]

+1, these fdroid updates are going to be a dealbreaker if I buy another android.

[slim]

AFwall+ I can't use a mobile device without a firewall

[reshie]

all roms need root.

[gruez]

What do you mean by "need root"? To flash? A few comments above people were mentioning how grapheneos was explicitly against rooting, so not giving users root during runtime is definitely a thing.

[petodo]

he means you can't install custom ROM without unlocked bootloader which is essentially root access

[yoavm]

Root access and unlocked bootloader are very different things. Many apps need root access to work, and having an unlocked bootloader won't help. On the other hand, installing another ROM requires an unlocked bootloader, but having root access won't help with it.

[petodo]

you can't have root access without unlocked bootloader, simple as that

I can access everything as root from recovery with unlocked bootloader without having actual root in system, root just make it more convenient after proper boot

[erdewit]

I use root to force a 44.1 kHz sample rate for the audio to avoid resampling of my lossless music, which is all in 44.1 kHz. The difference is noticeable even over Bluetooth with aptx(HD).

[chenxiaolong]

I root my phone for a few reasons (in no particular order):

* Reverse engineering, mostly to satisfy my own curiosity, but also to verify that the few third party apps I install don't do scummy things behind my back. I mostly use frida [1] for this and if I want to change the behavior of something permanently, I make a module for LSPosed [2].

* Get rid of Android's awful app links feature [3]. I despise Android >=12's behavior of always opening deep links in "official" apps (eg. Youtube) by default. To open those links in third party apps by default, the user has to go into Android's settings for the app and manually whitelist domains. This module forces Android to treat every domain as "unverified", which restores the old behavior of prompting the user which app to use when opening a link.

* Call recording [4]. (Or playing audio into a phone call to rickroll friends... [5])

* Raw access to app data, mostly for extracting information from apps with no export functionality.

That said, I don't like increasing the attack surface of my devices, so I do a few things to mitigate that a little bit. I wrote some scripts to sign the Android OTA update images, apply the Magisk boot image patches, and sign the images with a custom key [6]. This way, I can keep the benefits of Android's verified boot with a locked bootloader while rooted. I also don't allow any third party apps root access. My (hacky) local fork of Magisk only allows executing `su` if the app is signed by my own key or with a password if executing via `adb`. My LSPosed build only allows modules signed by my own key as well.

[1] https://frida.re/

[2] https://github.com/LSPosed/LSPosed

[3] https://github.com/Henry-ZHR/KillDomainVerification

[4] https://github.com/chenxiaolong/BCR

[5] https://github.com/chenxiaolong/BCP

[6] https://github.com/chenxiaolong/avbroot

[rkagerer]

I wish a solution like [6] were more widely accessible to those without a deep understanding of Android boot system internals. I'd love to be the holder of my own master keys, and the ADB password override feature sounds convenient.

[SXX]

VPN for tethering users require root. The way Apple / Google screw with users to make telco happy is awful.

[dbeley]

You don't have to root your LineageOS install, I personally run a LOS device without root. I think some adblocking solutions need root so it might be a valid use case for some people.

[meltyness]

Right, but even without userspace root, you'll still have needed to go to Ring 0 and unlock the bootloader.

[bakugo]

> What benefits are you guys reaping from taking root, these days?

Actually owning the device I paid for, for one. Most people nowadays are glad to pay for a device only to be told how they can and can't use it, but not all of us.

[britneybitch]

I use this root-only charge controller: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/app-root-4-0-battery-char...

My battery is over 5 years old and still holds a charge like it's brand new.

[pizza234]

> What benefits are you guys reaping from taking root, these days?

Backups!

[BeetleB]

I don't think it's been mentioned, but automation tools like Automagic[1] are invaluable, and need root.

[1] https://automagic4android.com/ Just noticed it's no longer maintained. One can use the more popular Tasker. Shame, though - Automagic could do everything Tasker did and was much easier to use.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dinglisch....

[canada_dry]

I'm a long time user of AM4A. Yes, unfortunately the developer has ceased further updates, but it still works great. It is rock solid / bug free as the developer was meticulous at ensuring his releases were extremely well tested. I have also been a tasker user since the early release, but find its UI painful to use and some features are buggy/unreliable.

I think the AM4A developer just decided to give up fighting with Google's constant locking down features and functionality.

To extend its life and usefulness I've began integrating B4A (b4x.com) with AM4A. I can call one from the other and xfer data between them using intents.

[leeoniya]

being able to run AdAway which needs to modify the hosts file is one reason to root. removing bloatware and pre-installed system apps is another.

[cmeacham98]

AdAway can run in VPN mode without root!

Also, you might need ADB, but there's ways to get rid of the bloatware without root: https://www.xda-developers.com/disable-system-app-bloatware-...

[orangepurple]

How do I connect to a second VPN simultaneously?

[cmeacham98]

Sadly, you can't, but most android VPN software will let you set the DNS servers and you can point to an advlocking resolver.

[orangepurple]

Can those DNS settings point to an adblocker app running on localhost? I'm not sure how well this solution would work with captive portals though.

[cmeacham98]

Unsure if Android's sandboxing would prevent this or not - I've never tested. It's theretically possible if sandboxing doesn't interfere or can be bypassed.

If you want to control it yourself maybe consider a pi-hole or similar?

[Operative0198]

Funny. But I have to root in order to pass safetynet on my device since it doesn't pass with the official lineage build on my device last time I checked (I squarely blame Google on this not lineage devs!).

Since am rooted anyways, it is my preferred method of installing Revanced Youtube [0], forcing auto-updates [1][2] for apps the way Google Playstore does it plus other miscellaneous fixes. It's also how I install microG[3].

Root has far too many other benefits to cover in one sitting but one of my favorites include being able to use an old app called DriveDroid to turn your Android into a bootable USB device capable of running live operating system ISOs.

[0] https://github.com/j-hc/revanced-magisk-module

[1] https://github.com/entr0pia/Fdroid-Priv

[2] https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraServices - This one isn't exactly self-updating but makes updating apps a one-click affair.

[3] https://github.com/nift4/microg_installer_revived

[orangepurple]

I did for a year then I realized Termux existed and now I run Arch Linux on my Android phone. It might still work without root (I didn't follow up to see if it would work)

[OJFord]

Oh wow, I'm not even sure now it's what you meant, but I had no idea before this thread that you could run wayland/x11 out of termux.

How's the access to hardware - does this mean I can essentially trial what 'daily driving' a Linux phone would be like without actually buying one/carrying two devices? E.g. can you designate Termux to handle phone calls/texts?

[fsflover]

If you want to run Arch Linux, why not get a GNU/Linux phone (Librem 5 or Pinephone)?

[orangepurple]

Inferior hardware and I just want a VM

[meltyness]

That sounds a bit like a job for UserLAnd, depending on how crucial the tasks are.

[josephcsible]

I like being able to back up all of the data on my phone, which isn't possible without root since Google decided to support the obnoxious <application android:allowBackup="false">. I also like being able to take screenshots of all of the apps on my phone, which isn't possible without root since Google decided to support the obnoxious LayoutParams.FLAG_SECURE.

[wistlo]

Yes, I stopped when I switched from a OnePlus 3T to Pixel 5.

My provider (and employer) kicked the 3T off the wireless network because it was not "4G compatible", though it very much is. The Pixel 5 was discounted for purchase, so I got a new phone in a hurry and never rooted it.

I really miss the pure red night color mode that required root, and with Magisk it finally became reasonably easy to cloak from bank apps and such. Now my phone's configured and I'm just too lazy to root it and start over, and I'm also happy so far with Google's security updates.

I'm also aware of the intense monitoring and collection, especially as I see advertisement tied to verbal conversations that happened in proximity to the phone. I'm halfway through Surveillance Capitalism and it makes me want to get a flip phone and pull the battery when idle. I hate to admit it, but I just don't have the energy to keep up a pure Google-free Android any longer.

[colordrops]

I'm pretty upset how they just don't allow a perfectly functional phone on the network anymore. My 3T is just sitting there collecting dust. I CALLED their support number with a phone that supposedly doesn't work on their network. I'm talking about Verizon.

[meltyness]

I'm more concerned about the carrier vertical agreements you allude to. I thought someone in government would have popped this pimple by now.

[spiritplumber]

Easier to test apps, and, if I am treating my phone like any other of my devices, why would I not have root on it.

[Dwedit]

I rooted because I needed an app that would physically prevent the battery from charging past a certain point. Had just replaced a puffed-up battery, and wanted to try to prevent problems from overcharging.

[doodlesdev]

As far as I know default android already has that functionality, or maybe it's just Samsung's ROM?

[jacooper]

I don't root it, but I use custom Roms for a privacy friendly smart phone. Currently using CalyxOS on a Pixel 4XL, thinking of using Graphene.

[jrm4]

More out of inertia than anything else. Family, kids etc. If I had all the time in the world i'd probably still be going at it.

[russianGuy83829]

working backups.

[birksherty]

Yes, this is the main reason for me. I can backup and restore data of any app, on different phone.

Another reason is XPrivacy Lua. Nothing beats it from privacy point.

[commoner]

Adding to the list of things that you can do with root on Android:

- App Manager[1] has a powerful feature that lets you disable trackers in every single app on the device. (Menu > 1-Click Ops > Block/unblock trackers)

- Neo Backup[2] is the most comprehensive backup app on Android, with automatic scheduling. It lets you back up and restore anything you want, including app data that the developer labeled "no_backup".

- Install and upgrade apps from third-party app stores without needing to manually confirm each installation. Extremely useful for Aurora Store[3] and Neo Store.[4]

- Universal SafetyNet Fix,[5] combined with MagiskHide Props Config[6] and Magisk,[7] allows you to spoof SafetyNet on your device to improve compatibility with apps that check for it, including some banking apps, commerce apps, and games.

> trusting Magisk, going without Clockwork Mod on many platforms, eschewing security updates

I have no problem trusting Magisk[7] as a free and open source Android rooting solution.

ClockworkMod Recovery has been discontinued for years. The most advanced Android recovery is TWRP,[8] and TWRP is not needed to root the device with Magisk.

I don't know what you mean by "eschewing security updates" since rooting Android does not prevent you from receiving security updates.

[1] App Manager: https://github.com/MuntashirAkon/AppManager

[2] Neo Backup: https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Backup

[3] Aurora Store: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.aurora.store/

[4] Neo Store: https://github.com/NeoApplications/Neo-Store

[5] Universal SafetyNet Fix: https://github.com/kdrag0n/safetynet-fix

[6] MagiskHide Props Config: https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/MagiskHidePropsConf

[7] Magisk: https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk

[8] TWRP: https://twrp.me/

[meltyness]

> ClockworkMod Recovery has been discontinued for years. The most advanced Android recovery is TWRP,[8] and TWRP is not needed to root the device with Magisk.

Funny, since I read your post, I realize that I actually meant TWRP - I don't think I ever actually used Clockwork!

In any case, the simplicity of escaping any bootloops afforded using TWRP really necessitated its use - if you chose to risk your device's sanity with xposed/magisk scripts...

[commoner]

I don't use Xposed, and Magisk has always worked as expected in my experience. No bootloops whatsoever.

[josephcsible]

> - Universal SafetyNet Fix,[5] combined with MagiskHide Props Config[6] and Magisk,[7] allows you to spoof SafetyNet on your device to improve compatibility with apps that check for it, including some banking apps, commerce apps, and games.

This reason seems kind of silly, since your phone will already pass SafetyNet out of the box. You only need that to keep passing it after you root.

[commoner]

LineageOS in particular does not support relocking the bootloader after flashing, so it needs root access and this workaround to pass SafetyNet. The SafetyNet check fails if it detects an unlocked bootloader, unless the bootloader lock status is spoofed. (The other Android-based operating systems that do allow users to relock the bootloader don't support nearly as many devices as LineageOS does.)

[josephcsible]

> The other Android-based operating systems that do allow users to relock the bootloader

If you relock the bootloader with a third-party OS, won't you still fail SafetyNet since the signing key won't be the one that Google blessed for that phone?

[commoner]

Yes, you're right. To pass SafetyNet, not only does the bootloader need to present itself as locked (either through relocking or spoofing), the device fingerprint must also present itself as a Google-certified fingerprint (through spoofing).[1]

I know that CalyxOS spoofs the device signature to pass SafetyNet by default,[2] though it does not spoof the bootloader lock status. (It does support relocking, but only if the device is not rooted.) For LineageOS and all other Android-based OSes that I'm aware of, MagiskHide Props Config is the easiest way to spoof both the device signature and the bootloader lock status to pass SafetyNet.

[1] https://github.com/cnrd/MagiskHide-Props-Config#spoofing-dev...

[2] https://calyxos.org/news/2022/05/07/location-safetynet-fix/

[giomasce]

I use tinc to connect to my home VPN.