[nhchris]

> In that sense, in contrast to the Nazis’ militaristic imperialism, the CCP has resurrected a more ancient form of imperialism in which they’ve bought and groomed foreign elites to be more loyal to them than to their own people.

Loyalty to one's own people, or that there even is such a thing as "own people", and not just random individuals that happen to share passports, is rather taboo in the West, isn't it?

[ggm]

Loyalty is complicated. GK Chesterton (who was not left leaning) said "my country right or wrong is like my mother drunk or sober"

It would be hard to espouse loyalty to America as a Japanese origin US citizen locked up in ww2 because of assumptions about loyalty. Somehow they did. Admirable.

The modern day pledge of allegiance was confected to reassert religions role in the state (against the express wishes of the constitution drafters) as if loyalty could be measured by willingness to recite a pledge under threats implicit or explicit.

The entire existence of the modern US polity is founded on a rejection of one kind of loyalty and replacement with another. Loyal british retreated to Halifax. They continued to trade with their southern neighbours.

What loyalty the black panthers owed was unclear.

Leo Amery M.P. (and a privy counsellor, thats loyalty) disowned his son who joined the nazi forces. He was executed at wars end 7 months after the victory in Europe.

[nhchris]

Your comments are about what loyalty the people owe to their government, but I was talking about the reverse - the loyalty a government owes to its people.

E.g. your example of the Black Panthers - they may not have been loyal to the US government, but they were unapologetically loyal to what they considered 'their people' - African-Americans.

[ggm]

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2422711-the-solution-after-...

"Die Lösung" by Bertold Brecht comes to mind