[vel0city]

Your link of Sudden unintended acceleration contains a lot of entries related to this issue which don't involve computers at all. It lists pedal misapplication, entrapped pedals, stuck throttles, electrical shorts, and diesel engine runaway as other things which can cause such an issue. A lot of the reported incidents had nothing to do with software.

Either way, if you've had a fuel injected car you were still exposed to these issues. You would have to go buy a carbureted engine from the 80s or before to get away from these "unintended acceleration" issues, as in the end a car with EFI probably has a computer actually controlling the injection. I'd be way more wary of daily driving an 80s or older car from a general safety standpoint than a software issue. You're way more likely to be t-boned at an intersection than a software glitch causing an accident; having a much more modern car will help from a crash safety standpoint than having a carburetor.

There's a ton of things that can go wrong in a car which can cause an accident. The software stack is surely one of those things, but even a 100% mechanical car can have a lot of failures as well. Ever have vacuum hoses fail on an old car? Carburetors get stuck or clogged? Personally, I'd prefer a computer controlling components directly instead of tons of vacuum lines and springs trying to keep things tuned right. On top of that I'll also get much better efficiency and reduce harmful emissions which hurt my family and my neighbors.

[kube-system]

> It lists pedal misapplication, entrapped pedals, stuck throttles, electrical shorts, and diesel engine runaway as other things which can cause such an issue.

And modern cars are much better at handling these types of scenarios. For example, in my late model car, if you apply the accelerator and brake at the same time, the vehicle will ignore the accelerator input. This solves two potential problems from the past: someone accidentally stomping on both pedals when they meant to hit the brake, and a foreign object wedging the accelerator pedal down.

[Tangurena2]

> someone accidentally stomping on both pedals when they meant to hit the brake

This happens to me (sometimes) in parking lots where pedestrians walk between cars. Mine (2019 Mazda Miata) does not do this, instead I get an engine rev while standing half on brakes, half on accelerator, full on clutch. I end up feeling embarrassed as I tend to get glared at by the pedestrian (no, I did not intentionally rev it to scare you).

[kube-system]

I'm glad that's not the behavior on a manual Miata, that would totally kill the prospects of heel-toe downshifting. ;)

[WirelessGigabit]

Wait what? You drive a manual and use the left foot to hit the brakes? Recipe for disaster.

[vel0city]

Nah, their left is full on clutch, their right foot is between the accelerator and brake pressing both at the same time.

[Tangurena2]

Correct. Left foot on the clutch as I was (in every one of these situations) backing out slowly. Then I see the pedestrian, lift foot off the gas and jam it on the brake. I guess, in my panic, I don't move the right foot far enough to the left (to get it fully off the gas pedal).

This is part of why I hate nose-in parking.

[dtgriscom]

Yeah; my VW Golf does that. Makes it hard to warm up the brakes in icy/condensing weather.

[smolder]

> Either way, if you've had a fuel injected car you were still exposed to these issues.

I don't think unintended acceleration with cable operated throttles was ever much of an issue. The simpler EFI systems of the 80s and 90s were very robust with predictable failure modes. We've certainly bought a lot in terms of safety and efficiency with the newer designs, but their complexity also means problems can be more obscure and more likely to sneak their way to market.

Anecdote: My 01 Volvo had weird/dangerous intermittent acceleration, but had a fully computerized throttle. The software got confused by a failing throttle position sensor. The best fix is to replace it with a hall effect sensor that doesn't wear out.

[_yb2s]

Most EFI still has a mechanical throttle, so if there is a glitch in the EFI it can’t possibly cause unintended acceleration. Only fairly new cars now have electronic throttle that could potentially accelerate the engine due to a software glitch.

[kube-system]

"Most" may vary by locale at this point. At least here in the US, automakers started migrating to throttle-by-wire in the 00s.

[ThePowerOfFuet]

My early-2000s Japanese car was throttle-by-wire.

[uconnectlol]

Yeah yeah, we had to get ECUs because of "problems". It's like how the terrible half working google captcha I get here for signing up with Tor is because "AI breaks text now". In reality it's just a bunch of lazy people going with the flow.

> reduce harmful emissions which hurt my family and my neighbors.

If there was a true problem it could be solved by having less kids. Why do you end your sentence with this dipshit way of arguing? Nobody falls for that. Of course we all know the game here is for someone to call you out being a passive aggressive dipshit and play the victim once that happens.

[dsfyu404ed]

>There's a ton of things that can go wrong in a car which can cause an accident.

And pretty much none of them ever do if the driver doesn't react exceptionally poorly. Even the spectacular stuff that the internet absolutely loves to hand wring about, like a wheel falling off for whatever reason, almost always results in the car coming to a controlled stop on the side of the road. The conversion rate between "failures" and "meaningful harm to anyone or anything is abysmal."

[kube-system]

That’s true now, because most of the critical systems have redundancy. I wouldn’t want to drive a vehicle with one brake circuit and no throttle return spring, though. It has been a very long time since that was the case, but those days are probably where the mechanical failure horror stories come from.

[vel0city]

Agreed. The biggest component failure leading to injuries is by far the one in the driver's seat.

[userbinator]

Either way, if you've had a fuel injected car you were still exposed to these issues. You would have to go buy a carbureted engine from the 80s or before to get away from these "unintended acceleration" issues, as in the end a car with EFI probably has a computer actually controlling the injection.

Even with EFI, if the throttle is mechanical and the EFI continues to ask for more fuel for whatever reason (or a fuel injector gets stuck open), all that will happen is the engine will stall due to the excessively rich mixture.

Ever have vacuum hoses fail on an old car? Carburetors get stuck or clogged?

The normal failure mode of a carburetor leads to an engine that doesn't run, and not the opposite. Before complete failure, you will notice a performance decline.

Personally, I prefer no computer control.

On top of that I'll also get much better efficiency and reduce harmful emissions which hurt my family and my neighbors

You can get a lot better efficiency from a carbureted engine than most people think.

As for safety, I'd rather have freedom.

[vel0city]

> if the throttle is mechanical

If the throttle is mechanical. So yeah, I guess there's a window of time there where EFI became the norm but before throttles were also electronic, so late 80s to early 2000s. I imagine the majority of cars on the road today in the US are fully electronic.

> The normal failure mode of a carburetor leads to an engine that doesn't run, and not the opposite.

I've personally experienced carburetors getting stuck open, usually on abused/unmaintained lawn equipment. I do agree the usual failure is that it gets gummed up and inefficient in its atomization, but a stuck open carb isn't impossible. Either way, a carb that fails and you suddenly lose power can also cause problems when unexpected.

> You can get a lot better efficiency from a carbureted engine than most people think.

Yeah, a well-tuned and well-maintained carburetor isn't absolutely horrific in efficiency. But it'll still pale in comparison to the combustion efficiency that can be had in a GDI engine.

> As for safety, I'd rather have freedom.

Cool, and feel free to drive that freedom car in your freedom yard. Please keep your freedom emissions in your freedom air though instead of polluting your neighbors. When you're driving on the public streets there's more than just you out there.

[userbinator]

Cool, and feel free to drive that freedom car in your freedom yard. Please keep your freedom emissions in your freedom air though instead of polluting your neighbors. When you're driving on the public streets there's more than just you out there.

Freedom includes doing things that others don't like --- and tolerating the opposite too. Otherwise you're just encouraging an authoritarian socialist dystopia.

[vel0city]

> Freedom includes doing things that others don't like --- and tolerating the opposite too.

So I should tolerate people driving on public streets without insurance and without a license? I should tolerate people driving the wrong way on the highway? I should tolerate whatever emissions come from the tailpipe of someone's car? I should tolerate sompeone driving a car that nobody has touched the brakes on for a decade and they're about ready to fail at any moment? I should tolerate people driving at night without headlights on? I should tolerate people driving at any blood alcohol level?

All of these are laws which limit freedom in the name of safety. You're arguing you'd prefer freedom over safety. Personally, I prefer all of these tradeoffs of freedom over safety, at least when driving on public streets. If you don't like these regulations, don't drive on public streets.

Requiring a driver's license, having emissions controls, creating traffic standards for driving on public streets are examples authoritarian socialist dystopia I guess.

[eimrine]

As far as I have understood, the previous commenter used to talk about FLOSS only (which is rather wise then not if you do value RMS' philosophy) and you have turned the discussion into absurd (kind of driving without license which has nothing to do with wiseness).

[vel0city]

To me they brought it to that extreme when referencing authoritarian socialist dystopia when originally talking about carburetors. Hard to not see it going that direction about rights/freedoms when not having the ability to tune your carb means you're encouraging an authoritarian socialist dystopia.

[gzer0]

Carbureted engines are significantly less fuel efficient than modern engines that use fuel injection systems. They're less precise; often times not able to fully burn all the fuel supplied.