[smosher]

I've always taken "systems language" to mean something you might write an OS in while the Go team takes it to mean something you'd replace Java with. Whichever way you want to look at it one thing the Go team can't say is that writing an OS is a "non-systems" problem.

Ideally these would be disjoint sets (in my opinion) but consider this: ASM -> C -> C++ -> Java -> ... looks like a continuum if you're writing any kind of Java code, but there's a sharp discontinuity in there if you're writing (say) a boot loader.

[eternalban]

> Whichever way you want to look at it one thing the Go team can't say is that writing an OS is a "non-systems" problem.

I do agree with that. (Perhaps it would be helpful to apply the high/low qualifier to systems languages?)

> Ideally these would be disjoint sets (in my opinion) but consider this: ASM -> C -> C++ -> Java -> ... looks like a continuum if you're writing any kind of Java code, but there's a sharp discontinuity in there if you're writing (say) a boot loader.

Food for thought. I am not arguing for needless complexity (in a language) as far as the boot up phase is concerned. As far as I understand it, the loader has its critical, but short lived, life-cycle role to play and then it is out of the way. Arguably, it is distinct from the OS. Can we not continue to write them in ASM/C and load operating systems that are written in a more "modern" language?

[smosher]

Personally I'd sooner map the somewhat fuzzier concept of "applications language" onto that supposed continuum instead. It would put Go in a clearer category, since it seems to compete with Java and Python better than it does with C.

I still don't imagine an OS being written in a non-systems application language, since you've got drivers and performance critical subsystems to write and things like GC to worry about from the apps-only languages.

[pjmlp]

Have a look at Spin or Native Oberon, just to name two operating systems written in GC enabled languages.

Before C existed, there were already operating systems written in PL/I and ALGOL, which provide better type safety and memory management as C or C++.

Unix and C success has regressed what meant to be a proper systems programming language.

There is even a paper from Adele Goldberg about this phenomena, unfortunately I cannot recall the title now.