[mpweiher]

> if we assume everyone is equal then there shouldn't be

Incorrect assumption. Everyone is obviously not equal.

For example: 2% of people like tech enough to work there, 98% do not. These two groups are obviously not equal.

> but one group is systemically discouraged from taking on tech even if they want to

What evidence do you have for this "systematic discouragement"? Of the 98% of people who do not go into tech? How so?

[ehnto]

>> if we assume everyone is equal then there shouldn't be > Incorrect assumption. Everyone is obviously not equal.

I was quoting you. There are some practical differences obviously, but I don't believe any of them should mean women are less inclined to enjoy technical jobs.

> What evidence do you have for this "systematic discouragement"? Of the 98% of people who do not go into tech? How so?

Speak to women who are in tech, ask them what their experience was like. I haven't got any studies for you I'm afraid, it would seem we're debating in experiences so I don't think this will be constructive.

[mpweiher]

> I was quoting you.

No you were not. I did not write "everyone is equal" anywhere in the post you responded to. In fact, I neither wrote 'everyone' nor 'equal'.

> Speak to women who are in tech, ask them what their experience was like.

Anecdote ≠ data and is not evidence for anything "systematic".

> I haven't got any studies for you I'm afraid

Because there aren't any that show this, because it's not an actual thing.

> we're debating in experiences

I am debating facts, you are debating what appear to be anecdotal experiences and subjective evaluations of those experiences from which you then extrapolate mightily.

If I told you what my experience has been in tech, you probably wouldn't believe me. And if I were to present my personal experience as that of a woman, you would think it proof for the systematic discrimination against women in tech. Except that it isn't, of course, because it all happened to a man.

Anyway, people have studied this empirically, and this is what they found:

"Our early analysis suggests that men and women actually appear to leave engineering at roughly the same rate and endorse the same reasons for leaving."

https://sites.uwm.edu/nsfpower/gears/

And of course this is why "just ask <group x>" is not a valid method for ascertaining discriminatory practice. You also have to ask other groups to see if the practices differ based on what group you belong to.

In tech, they don't. In fact, women in tech generally report slightly better treatment than men do (different survey). Tech is a shit show for everyone.

A very well-compensated shit-show, mind you.

(And since men are und greater pressure to earn, they are probably also more likely to tolerate a shit show if the pay is good).