[corin_]

I don't know if this is a difference between UK and US police tactics, or if it's specific to Portland - I also don't know if it's the case that the difference was caused by not caring as much or just by not being as successful: UK police have done a much better job in the past, and rendered this article nonsense.

The key difference:

> Since we had no clear destination, the police were unable to get ahead of us and set up roadblocks.

If the police have such small numbers that they cannot afford to take any manpower away from the back of the march then yes, obviously this is the case. But really, with police vans offering fast transport there is no reason they cannot prevent a moving demonstration from moving. Obviously, budget comes into play, for example police helicopters can help them see what is going on and help them create tactics to counter it.

An example of what I'm talking about is Kettling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling), a term which has only really gained popularity in the press in the last few years, but police (at least in the UK) have used this method for a hell of a long time - not always as viciously as the image most people think of for the term now, that of demonstrators being stuck and not allowed out for hours and hours.

[dotBen]

As a Brit now living in US, I came here to mention Kettling too. (Kettling is when the police entirely surround a protest group and will not let anyone enter or leave for many many hours).

Unlike the other comment on this sub-thread, I don't see any reason why Kettling wouldn't work here in the US (sadly) if the police used it. The density of the streets in UK doesn't come into it when you consider the Kettling that took place in Oxford Circus, London during May Day riots a few years ago.

I think the issue for Kettling in the US is that police here rely more on aggression and fear of attack (the heavy infantry, as the OP puts it) then strategy and tactical superiority. As the OP observes, this then goes horribly wrong for the Police when they are forced to assert that aggression physically on protestors.

The other issue for Kettling here in US is constitutional rights. In the UK the police will Kettle a crowd for hours - which in real terms mean they will not let you out even if you decide to give up protesting. This is frankly as a punitive action more than anything else. My guess is constitutionally the police might not be able to do this to undetained, unarrested citizens.

[nerfhammer]

In my experiences with NYPD blockades as a passerby they typically forcefully imply rather than directly state you're not allowed through, and if you insist I've always seen them sheepishly give up.

[dotBen]

The whole point with Kettling, which kinda makes it punitive, is that they are 100% clear that you are not leaving the enclosed pen they have created.

Sometimes the kettling can go on for 6+ hrs and even with protestors demanding toilet breaks, water or medical issues from standing up for so long, the police have refused them to leave.

[nerfhammer]

sounds like that would be unlawful here on several levels

[ms4720]

In the US I think that might come under false arrest or illegal imprisonment by the police.

[nerfhammer]

Unlawful detainment, among other things I think.

[pstuart]

They should definitely contact the police about that unlawful behavior.

[devs1010]

I think this may have to do with cultural and geographic distances. U.S. cities, for the most part, may not be as easy to do something like kettling in as most are less dense than U.K. cities and may simply have more open space to cover to effectively "kettle" people and contain them to one area. Also, although the police are clearly acting as if they are militants at war, they still don't want the non-protesting population to feel as if they are under martial law so sectioning off a large part of a city with police in riot gear and chasing protestors around to where everyone sees this going on would probably hurt their cause more than help it.

[radicalbyte]

You shouldn't discount 25 years of experience trying to control football (soccer) hooligans in the UK has given the police a lot of experienced bodies and equipment (i.e. horses) to help implement such tactics.

Plus, in the UK the cops aren't generally armed with anything more than a club. So they have to use their heads a bit more.

This is what happens when UK cops get guns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Meneze...

[bdunbar]

Plus, in the UK the cops aren't generally armed with anything more than a club. So they have to use their heads a bit more.

I attended riot-control training in the Marines: from the way things look on teevee the cops are doing pretty much what we trained to do.

Guns are out[1]. Clubs, chemical agents, are in. Using your head is the order of the day.

Because it only takes one guy not using his head, throwing a CS grenade into the crowd, upwind from your lines, to ruin your whole day.

[1] Let me (slightly) expand on the guns thing and Marines. We _had_ rifles in the Marines, but doctrine and training had us running around without ammunition, or with ammunition kept in pouches, and only allowed to be used with permission of a commissioned officer.

[devs1010]

Yea, its two different situations completely, U.S. police often look like military combatants by the gear they wear and often seem to view themselves as urban military units. While this is horrible and an obvious sign of our country going down the shitter, it does make them have to be more conscious of how they use force because it looks so bad to the general public to see images of cops in riot gear who are armed to the teeth chasing around protestors.

[nerfhammer]

Riot police look pretty scary everywhere

https://www.google.com/search?q=arizona+police&tbm=isch

and generally only armed with batons outside of low-human rights countries due to the obvious danger of losing control of weapons amidst violent crowds.

[devs1010]

I wasn't talking just about riot situations, U.S. police look sort of like this (especially where I am in Arizona) all the time, except without the masks.

[SageRaven]

Is this now state-wide or still only within the "Constitution-Free Zone" within 200 miles of Mexico's border?

I was in Nogales looking for property in winter of '04, and I noted how many of the law enforcement were all dolled up in their military-like gear. This was before the checkpoints, so I never got too close. Still... if I wasn't white and driving a giant, made-in-America pickup truck, I certainly would not have felt too welcome in the area.

[nosse]

In my home town they had some kind of occupy stuff going on lately. But the police used their superior Sun Tzu art of war strategy and picked their battle wisely. They didn't pick this one. The occupation faded away as winter came, no police resources wasted on nonviolent park-sitting.

[rsanchez1]

Budget is the biggest factor. That's why there will be no end to Occupy. It's a war of attrition. The Occupiers want to force anarchy across the U.S. by collapsing police departments in each city.