[TheCleric]

> No good or service can bring happiness.

Going back to art, this is probably false. Art (including music) brings happiness to at least some creators and some consumers. I personally receive great happiness from listening to music.

[Vt71fcAqt7]

>I personally receive great happiness from listening to music.

This is a pretty naive understanding of hapiness. It is widley held by philosophers, religions, and even even many (most) uneducated people that happines is happiness in one's state of being, ie. something like contentment. One who is "happy when he listens to music" is generaly said not to be happy. Not even not "truly" happy but just not happy at all. This can be demomstated from an evoltionary, teleological psychological, or even theological perspective.

[TheCleric]

I can assure you that at least in the theological circles I have traveled in you have it exactly backwards. In those traditions happiness is momentary and fleeting, but a contentedness with a state of being regardless of circumstances would be described as joy.

[bumby]

I get what you're saying here but it's an entirely different argument than saying subjective experience has no value. It comes across as so unwilling to acknowledge the inward experience of others as to appear almost insufferably unempathetic.

[TheCleric]

Oh I know this is just a side trail on a bigger discussion. You're completely correct though, ability to understand that other people's experiences are valid is the very definition of empathy.