[mynameisvlad]

A 240V charger, as parent commenter said, more than makes up for whatever losses are inherent in heating the car and battery.

I have an uncovered space and it’s fine. Yeah, the battery sucks in the cold, and it takes longer to charge, but realistically it’s not like you need to use your car 24/7. Leaving it for a few hours overnight charges it to full, and you can schedule defrosting or do it from the app so the car is warm when you get in.

It’s far from “a huge pain”.

[tjoff]

Surely depends on how cold it is? As well as amperage...

In Sweden there were lot of reports of people being unable to charge with 230V 10A.

Sure, you'd make sure to install a more powerful charger if necessary. But that requires you and everywhere else to be adapted for EVs. Which is a pain.

[glogla]

Is 10A common in Sweden? Around here, every basic socket is rated 230V 16A and even apartments typically have each phase 230V 25A. And then you can go to multiple phases.

(Funny thing, this is kind oversized for domestic applications and the driver behind it is that the law says you pay fee based on maximum amperage of your connection, so electricity companies refuse to install anything smaller than 25A and give everyone they can three-phase so they make more money.)

Also, how adapting to EVs is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE is not, I don't get it.

[buran77]

> Also, how adapting to EVs is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE is not, I don't get it.

That's a very "you-centric" view of the world. Convenience is convenience, regardless of whether it destroys the world or not, and more money is expected to bring more convenience. So very few people say "I'll suffer this winter so the world is destroyed just a little bit less". That's why they have EVs but can still have a "factory sized" carbon footprint due to their huge houses, multiple cars, etc.

Case in point, you probably get how adapting to public transport is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE because you want a personal car is not.

[glogla]

> Case in point, you probably get how adapting to public transport is a huge pain but LITERALLY DESTROYING THE WORLD THROUGH CLIMATE CHANGE because you want a personal car is not.

Oh for sure. That is why people saying "what about people living in apartments? checkmate, EVs!" annoy me so much - if you live in an apartment you probably don't need a car.

But people are used to their comforts, so saying that doesn't win any favors or votes. Nor does saying "it's good that EVs are more expensive, since fewer people will be able to afford cars".

[oblio]

> Oh for sure. That is why people saying "what about people living in apartments? checkmate, EVs!" annoy me so much - if you live in an apartment you probably don't need a car.

There are a ton of valid reasons for someone living in an apartment to still need a car. And rentals are not a solution. Rental companies are a nightmare and rental cars suck.

[lotsofpulp]

> if you live in an apartment you probably don't need a car.

This is not true for anywhere outside a few city centers in the US.

[rypskar]

At least in Norway cars will limit the charging to 10A when using a normal wall socket instead of a dedicated car charger on a connection with extra protection, I think there are some Eu regulations around that to.

10A circuits was the norm in houses years ago, but now the normal is changed to 16A and one 25A for the stove. We do not have any fee based on the maximum amperage of the circuit, the changes are only demand driven. If you want to put the kettle on and vacuum at the same time you need 16A

[pedrocr]

Usually it's 13A from a Shucko plug. They're rated for 16A but you're not supposed to run that continuously so it's 13A to be at 80% of maximum for a continuous load.

[saiya-jin]

Mining all that crap that goes into any EV destroys our planet properly.

If you want to actually help environment, you need to live in cold through the winter by using heating at minimum, you need to use public transport, do adequate sustainable shopping of everything and so on and on. Which hits the general consumerism and comfort western society is so used to like a concrete wall of WWII bunker.

I get why prople want to feel they are not passive when global catastrophe is coming, but just buying EV and saying you have done your part is a fucking bad joke, sorry cant put it in milder terms. Kids in african cobalt, lithium etc mines would object, at least if they could.

[buran77]

You're hand waving away a lot of things here. People have the expectation of convenience and the current standard is whatever any regular car can do. When things fall short it can be a major inconvenience or even a deal breaker.

> It’s far from “a huge pain”.

You name "a huge pain" and someone will disagree. Not having a car at all is far from a huge pain but you still have one, even at a significant price.

[mynameisvlad]

What, exactly, is being hand woven away? I’m describing the realities of EV ownership.

My car is always plugged in and therefore always at 80%. It takes a few hours after returning from a trip to charge it back up, regardless of the weather or other conditions, and the car is warmed up by the time I get into it using remote defrosting. In fact, during this snowstorm, my car always was consistently completely defrosted every time.

None of this sounds anywhere even remotely in the same ballpark as “a huge pain”.

[jeffrallen]

I drive a 1972 Toyota Conora in the winter of 1990. One time it stopped and I had to walk to school. I got there late with MY HAIR FROZEN. That was a huge pain. Using a few extra amp hours of green electricity for 3 months a year to charge my 2019 Zoe is not a huge pain.

[brailsafe]

I wouldn't buy one anyway, but first thing that comes to mind is not the convenience but the energy waste in battling the cold to keep the battery charged

[mdp2021]

> it’s not like you need

But you need it anytime you need it - some rank reliability very highly, at "requirement" level.

> from the app

And this already is a loud warning bell.

[mynameisvlad]

Do you use your car 24/7? No, you don’t. Nobody does. And if you did, there are charging systems outside of home charging.

Did you miss scheduled defrosting, where the car does it automatically so it’s ready in the morning? Does your car even have the ability to do that without you in the car? I didn’t think so.

Be realistic about what is a pain and what isn’t. None of your rebuttals are much of anything except “woe is me I have to take out an app to do something I couldn’t even dream of doing on my car and that’s scary”.

[mdp2021]

> Do you use your car 24/7

Yes, we need it reliable: always available in case of need.

> take out an app

I do not see any chance of ever using a car that requires a smartphone.

[mdp2021]

The HN system just refused an edit, I will have to reply instead:

I am reading the words of former NATO supreme allied commander James Stavridis,

> Every year, the number of devices connected to the internet grows rapidly. By some estimates, the count is up to more than 50 billion devices, from around 7 million a decade ago. The benefits are real and obvious. (Hooray, I can close my garage door from a thousand miles away on my household Nest!) But so is the fact that each of those devices is a unique point of attack for hackers. We have created a vast, undefendable threat surface

You simply do not put unrequired attack surfaces on critical devices - it is cretinous -, and you do not encourage the practice - it is criminal.