[082349872349872]

Mutual Aid Among Animals mentions the existence of Defectors. I would argue both that the existence of the internet in particular and civilisation in general is a sign that great numbers of people can cooperate effectively, and that the woeful Covid response is a sign that small numbers of people defecting can be ruinous.

The best laid plans of mice and men, therefore, would seem to be those that (a) allow Cooperators to combine with at least linear effect, and (b) are resistant to sizeable Defecting populations.

[robertlagrant]

Defectors implies authoritarianism, and my way or the highway thinking. which have generally been the enemy of overall cooperation. Wikipedia and the internet work because they mostly aren't like that, and are at their worst when they are.

[082349872349872]

Defect and Cooperate are terms of art: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma#Generalized...

In a "one hand washes the other" model of cooperation, the right hand would be defecting if it was frequently washed by the left, while never (or infrequently) washing in return.

[Gravityloss]

Hmm, if someone "defects" wikipedia and doesn't edit it, no big deal.

But there absolutely are edit wars and battles of authority and admin bans etc.

[robertlagrant]

Indeed. Hence my final phrase :)

[082349872349872]

OK, so what model of overall cooperation would avoid Wikipedia drama?

(having seen humanity's response to Covid, I'm not willing to admit "the spirit of full cooperation will bloom as defecting behaviour withers away" as axiomatic. But I am curious as to what you have in mind?)

[robertlagrant]

I don't have an alternative for Wikipedia. I'm saying we shouldn't lean into any (always seductive) way of thinking that demonises people who disagrees with our one true way of doing things. People should be herded cats; neither wild cats nor herded sheep.

[082349872349872]

Agreed. What terms might be better than the game-theoretic Cooperator and Defector, then?

[serverholic]

I think the woeful Covid response shows how powerful culture is in shaping human behavior.

This is simultaneously terrifying and a source of optimism.