[mwagstaff]

Slightly off topic, but I was with Three UK for a while. Reception was universally terrible, and trying to use mobile data was a joke.

This was in a small urban centre... called London. Would never, ever touch them again.

Back on topic, it seems that they are not using Bluecoat/Symantec Site review (which I suspect other providers do), which has the domain categorised correctly:

https://sitereview.bluecoat.com/#/lookup-result/https%253A%2...

[tomxor]

> trying to use mobile data was a joke. [...] This was in a small urban centre... called London

In any significantly built up area 4G is mostly a dice roll among the 3 major UK providers. There will be little consistency when moving between locations and even the same location will change over time.

This is because the radio bands used in 4G are now so saturated that you are aiming for the _least_ popular provider in your current location (different providers are allocated different bands). It doesn't matter how many towers they have or how good your reception is when all the users are limited to such small (radio) bandwidths in the same area, when there are too many users, you effectively have to wait your turn to "speak". This is the main selling point of 5G IMO: not the higher theoretical maximum throughput; but the real world better average throughput even in busy areas due to less user contention because there is so much radio bandwidth available that the major factor in getting reasonable throughput should be equipment, reception and backhaul rather than unpopularity.

This is actually how EE maintain higher than average throughput on their 4G networks AFAICT, because they are priced far higher than their competitors, keeping their user numbers lower... a strategy that may not continue to compete well within the 5G spectrum. Speaking of which, stay away from EE if you care about your sanity.

[rickdeckard]

> This is actually how EE maintain higher than average throughput on their 4G networks AFAICT, because they are priced far higher than their competitors, keeping their user numbers lower...

EE actually maintains a higher-than-average throughput because despite telecoms regulation in place they are "somehow" allowed to own a ridiulous amount of spectrum in critical frequency bands. This raw spectrum is required to provide the bandwidth and thus throughput:

For throughput on 4G mobile, the most important LTE frequencies in Europe are Band 1 and 3 (and arguably to a lesser degree Band 7). On those frequencies combined EE owns almost HALF of the total spectrum (45 of 70MHz on Band3, 20 of 60MHz on Band1, 50 of 120MHz on Band7), with the three (!) other competitors splitting up the other half.

[tim333]

I live in London and had 3 for years and it went from ok to almost unusable where I was. I think they've sold a lot of unlimited data contracts and don't have the gear to service them.

I switched to O2 a couple of months ago and they've been ok really. Nothing amazing but at least the thing nearly always works.

Three seem to have gone down hill in a number of ways. They were also dropping free roaming (still on O2) and I stopped being able to use my laptop on the tube (works with O2).

[varispeed]

That is somewhat true, but seeing people on the train, browsing internet or watching YouTube just fine, when you can't load anything tell a different story.

I even asked a few strangers what network they use and how come they have reception. This is the network I switched to eventually and indeed no more problems.

[tomxor]

Yes, sometimes it really is just down to better coverage, but if it's a city, it's almost always covered well by all 3 providers.

> I even asked a few strangers what network they use and how come they have reception

However this is selection bias, you may actually have switched to a less popular network (which is better), or it could be coverage, it's hard to tell. The funny thing is that you can see how over time people will be switching back and forth between providers, even though there may actually be little change of coverage, any improvements could be more to do with movement of subscribers. Unfortunately 5G wont entirely eliminate this phenomenon because higher frequency comes with the disadvantage of being less penetrating to solid structures, so e.g in a train, or building people will sill be contending with each other over 4G quite often.

In the end, all that matters is what works, and you can only really test that empirically or by using other's to gauge performance as you did. Luckily you can now test 2 of the major UK networks without a contract, "Three" and "Vodafone" provide contract-less unlimmited month-to-month sim only through their sub-brands "Smarty" and "Voxi"... and I highly recommend using these over the main brand because you always have the flexibility to change quickly as network conditions change (I've switched between these two multiple times for a home LTE router due to changing user contention - which I've only inferred from the fact that there were no new towers in the area while maintaining the same RSRQ, and connecting to the same cell ids).

www.cellmapper.net is a good resource for roughly gauging coverage... but far better than any of the vague maps given on ISP sites, it actually shows you individual cells for each tower with rough directional areas, I've found it quite useful for debugging weird issues with antenna positioning on permanent LTE router setup due to locking onto bad towers (which unfortunately is not directly controllable on standard user equipment modems).

[Matsta]

I agree it's good you can test.

To add, if you want to try O2, there's GiffGaff/TescoMobile and if you want to try EE there's 1pm Mobile and EE offers PAYG sims as well.

I have 5g internet at home, tested every network and EE was miles faster than anyone else even though I live close to all the towers. I did find that going on a contract was alot cheaper than PAYG, and it's the only way to get unlimited data on EE. Still it's £30/month which is cheaper than what Voxi is offering.

With the wifi on the tube, the EE one works alot better than Three who goes through the Virgin wifi network. EE installs a profile so it auto connects quite reliably when you stop at stations.

[tomxor]

I think technically EE probably is the better network, it's just unfortunate that their customer service is hell on earth.

If you get a sim that actually works from the start, i guess you are lucky. Just pray you are not unfortunate enough to ever have to deal with their customer support for any real technical fuckup at their end... they burned so much of my time I can never go back.

I bought a 24 month unlimited contract (which I don't like doing but I know the network is technically better so bit the bullet). The sim didn't activate, 1 months of phone calls and endless promise after broken promise, they still couldn't activate the thing. Finally they sent me a new sim but on the wrong 1GB/month plan, which apparently they intended to switch once activated, which of course they never could manage to actually do. So after another month they agreed to end the contract since they couldn't seem to actually fulfil it.

Oh but there's more.... 6 months later I find out they are still charging me for this stupid 1gb contract for which no sim card even exists. I reluctantly call them again thinking at this point it might be faster to open a law suit, this is ridiculously complicated and takes much convincing since the contract is now supposed to be ended so all the account numbers etc are wrong. They agree to send me a refund me by cheque for £50 rather than set up another DD to avoid more fuck ups........

1 Month later: I receive a cheque for 50p - fucking joke.

They still owe me £50, but it's not worth the time it would cost me to attempt getting it back.

This is partly why I don't like contracts, you can't easily walk away from shit like this.

[Matsta]

I feel you; it's a pain.

Tbh, Three was even worse when I rang, I just got a call centre in India, and they can never help you.

Does suck about EE for you. I've had a few issues, but they are okay with giving me credit. They messed up my discount on my latest contract, so they gave me a recurring discount of £5 on my contract and added like 3 months of credit on.

I also had an issue with BT (which I assume is the same call centre as EE). They never gave us the signup bonus (free soundbar). I waited six months, got the ombudsman involved, and someone high up gave me a call. They instantly realised it was pretty messed up. So, in the end, I ended up getting a Soundbar, and like £300 back in credit, so I had free internet for most of the contract, then cancelled as soon as I moved house.

But if it happens to you, always hint you don't want to get the ombudsman involved, and they will suddenly get their crap together.

[lost_tourist]

why not say the network? I don't think that's against HN guidelines.

[cjrp]

I used to have this problem at major stations like London Bridge. Full 4G signal bars, but no actual throughput. Seems to have gotten better lately, not sure if that's the effect of 5G or reduced passengers due to WFH.

[Matsta]

I was on 3 until my contract ran out a few months ago, but it was still that bad. Oxford Circus you have full bars of 4g but no signal at all. I was going in quite alot last year before most people had returned to the office it made no difference to pre covid.

I think part of the reason is that 3 only use a handful of bands where EE has a bunch more to spread the load.

Was the same when I needed to tether my phone, always had no signal but couldn't load anything. Had to hotspot off colleagues phones. This was all over central London (Shoreditch, London Bridge, Holborn)

Moved to EE and now don't have any issues.

[vladvasiliu]

It's anecdotal, but during all my visits to London, pre-covid, I've always had good enough cell reception. I didn't watch youtube or similar, but I could always use google maps and city mapper, both of which I've used extensively since I'm not familiar with the city, or check random internet websites.

I didn't pay attention to which provider I was using, since it was probably chosen by whatever deals my home provider stuck with providers over there.

[ravel-bar-foo]

Why is this 4G band saturation never a problem in Seoul? The only place I ever had cell connectivity problems was in a stadium. Does the UK not use LTE? Maybe the Seoul providers installed lots of wifi access points?

[wkat4242]

I had them in Ireland. They were horrible.

First there was a stupid internet filtering proxy supposedly blocking erotic content but actually blocking a lot more, breaking many websites and forums, VPNs, etc. And also making internet access really slow. The only way to come off this was to ID at the store. This was not a legal requirement in Ireland and only three was doing this crap. All the others just give full internet access by default. I think the UK government enforces this stuff but that's no reason to force it on Irish customers. This was in 2006 or so though. I don't think even the UK had such laws back then (I know they do now).

Then I had an issue logging into their website to top up my account. I called their helpdesk (foreign) which were pure script monkeys and kept insisting my handset needed to be serviced at my expense and asking me to rub the SIM on my Tshirt. I kept trying to explain it had nothing to do with my handset but with their website which I accessed from my computer. But they just stonewalled me with their irrelevant scripts.

In the end I unlocked the handset and moved to tesco mobile. I'll never take 3 or anything from Hutchinson again.

[theodric]

If you're on Tesco Mobile in Ireland, you're on Three! They're just an MVNO.

[wkat4242]

I know. They are now but at the time they were not. Tesco mobile was on O2 (also as MVNO). I think I heard Three and O2 have merged since then or something. Or was it Three and Meteor? I don't live in Ireland anymore so I don't really follow it.

Tesco mobile didn't do any of three's skullduggery though. No filtering and their support was excellent. You could even write to them directly on boards.ie (which is itself a great phenomenon I wish more countries had). And three's network itself isn't bad. It's just the people running it.

I meant I don't want to deal with a company managed by Hutchinson again, AFAIK in the case of tesco mobile they just manage the underlying network.

[theodric]

I have a place in Ireland where I spend a minority of my time at the moment. It's LTE-only (a farm in the mountains of North Cork) so I've tasted the rainbow of available options in my muddy corner of paradise in 2021-2022:

-Vodafone was great, and had (or enforced) no fair-use limit, but suddenly started to majorly suck (~25Mbps down to 500Kbps; 60ms latency up to to 2s). 1-2 bars of LTE Band 20; no Band 28. They share a mast location with Three in my area.

-Three has no fair-use limit, but struggles to give me over 5Mbps; normally more like 2Mb. Latency 100-300ms. 1-2 bars of LTE Band 20; no Band 28. Clear signs of oversaturation during peak hours.

-Eir used to perform like Three, but recently upgraded their kit in the area to 5G: 60Mbps down, 35mbps up. 5 bars of 5G, 5 bars of LTE Band 28 and 20. Their mast is on the same ridge, but in a different location. But! 120GB fair use with absolutely soul-crushing throttling once exceeded.

I looked into the MVNO gang, but their offers are no more enticing: Tesco Mobile starts charging exorbitant rates once you exceed your data allowance, Clear Mobile is on Vodafone and throttles to 5Mbps, GoMo passes on the same data caps as Eir, etc.

My solution is a Zyxel NR7101 5G CPE with an Eir SIM in it, and a Mikrotik CPE + roof antenna with a Three SIM in it. General use Internet access on Eir, big downloads on Three; turn down YouTube resolution; go outside more often. Each SIM costs €20/month, pay-as-you-go, so I can choose to have one or both on a whim. It's not great, but it'll do! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[wkat4242]

Oh yes Eir is what Meteor used to be, right? I've been gone a long time.

I live in a big city now but I still use 4G as backup because my fibre provider can be a bit hit and miss. Fibre is usually installed on the outside of buildings here so it can be pretty dependent on weather.

I've been thinking of upgrading to a 5G CPE but there's not much point - 4G is enough for working from home and cost me only 25 bucks for the modem. And most prepaid plans here don't allow 5G yet anyway.

[flurdy]

I did use Three for a while as a Mifi device at home and on the train when we moved back to the UK after we had our first baby back in 2011. As new clueless parents (who thought we were prepared but god no) I spent a lot of time researching English and Norwegian sites on breastfeeding and other baby matters.

And so many sites was blocked by Three. So frustrating when these were big mainstream baby and health sites but not necessarily in English.

Reception wise they were no worse than others, they all have big black spots in rural areas.

[pomatic]

Worth mentioning Three soap bars and Three phones when tethered use different frequency allocations - so performance will not be comparable between the two. FWIW, I have a three soap bar and it works well in the main, whether in central London or out in the styx.

[samwillis]

> As new clueless parents (who thought we were prepared but god no)

Absolutely no one is prepared, anyone who claims they are or seems to be are faking it.

[blitzar]

I have seen "second time" parents (and recently someone on their third) who thought they were prepared, they had done it before ...

[traceroute66]

> Slightly off topic, but I was with Three UK for a while. Reception was universally terrible, and trying to use mobile data was a joke.

I know someone who for a while was manager for a team of on-call engineers for a large-ish UK company.

As part of their precautions, they had contracts with all the big operators which they basically split into three groups Vodafone, Three, O2/EE.

The Vodafone contract was of course always the highest in cost, such is life with Vodafone. But nobody ever had a problem getting in touch with engineers on Vodafone SIMs, and the engineers didn't have much to bitch about either.... they could seemingly get signal and data everywhere, even basements.

O2/EE were sort of the Goldilocks option... not too good, not too bad. Data was generally better than Vodafone (O2/EE were generally quicker off the mark deploying 4G/5G whilst for a few years Vodafone customers suffered 3G in non-urban areas).

Meanwhile with Three, everything sucked. Sure they were the cheapest, but very much "get what you pay for". The Customer Service was terrible. But the main problem for my friend was the coverage. We're talking about prime Central London areas here (W,WC,EC postcodes) and the engineers on Three would regularly have either no signal or one/two bars. Infact in one office in particular, the IT room which overlooked a busy street was a Three blackspot, no signal whatsoever (meanwhile colleagues on Vodafone or O2/EE had no problems at all).

Eventually they got fedup, dropped Three and went for a two-carrier model. Three was not exactly bringing much to the table !

I should state this was around 5–10 years ago. So things might have changed. I suspect they have not changed substantially though.

[varispeed]

I had no reception and no data through most of my commute. What pushed me to switch operator was when I realised my phone was showing it has reception, but nobody could call me still. So when I missed doctor's appointment I really needed - literally sitting by my phone and waiting for a call for a couple of hours. When my window passed I called the surgery and was told that doctor called me several times, but was not getting through. The reason I didn't switch earlier is that I needed to keep my number and I was worried that when switching operators something will go wrong as my luck would have it. Fortunately I switched it without problem and I wish I dropped Three the first day there was a problem. I don't know how they are allowed to operate.

[acqbu]

Had a similar experience and everyone I know has nothing but bad things to say about Three UK. It doesn't surprise me that it's the least popular network out of the 4 main mobile operators.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/375986/market-share-held...

[aix1]

Three UK made me jump through quite a few hoops when I decided to leave them, and then kept billing me after I'd cancelled the contract (at the end of the tie-in period) and had returned all hardware. I ended up having to escalate things to the ombudsman in order to have them resolved. Would never go anywhere near Three ever again.

[kar1181]

There was a period about 7 years ago where they were fantastic, their 3G/4G network wasn't too bad unless you were out in the sticks, and they were CHEAP, about 13£ for 200 mins/200 texts _unlimited_ data. And the kicker was pretty much unrestricted high speed roaming.

Have since moved over to EE which is better performing and better coverage but much pricier. 3 sadly will fall over in the next couple years I would bet.

[azalemeth]

Three are owned by CK Hutchinson Holdings [1], a Hong-Kong and Cayman islands registered multinational conglomerate that owns a number of telephone/ISP companies, ports, and some gas pipelines, as well as the main HV electricity maintainer in the east and south east of England, UK Power Networks.

Rather than privatisation giving democratic power over essential infrastructure to good-old capitalist citizens, I would politely argue that we appear to have sold it to the Chinese government instead.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CK_Hutchison_Holdings

[mrtksn]

I actually like Three but it was impossible to use data at the rush hour in central London. I don't know what's the current situation but that was my main frustration with Three. Also, I'm disappointed that they ended Roam like home despite having universal(?) roaming before EU made all the carriers do it.

[darrenf]

They renamed it to "Go Roam" and if you've been with them since before October 2021 it's still free in 71 countries (otherwise it's pretty steep): https://www.three.co.uk/go-roam

"If you’re on Pay As You Go, or your Pay Monthly plan started before 1 October 2021, these charges won’t apply."

(I'm a happy Three customer since 2011, can't recall significant signal woes in London while I lived there and have reliable, fast 5G out in the sticks now)

[blitzar]

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2022/01/three-custome...

Eventually your time will come and they will remove it.

[darrenf]

Ugh, I had no idea about that. Thanks for telling me - doesn't seem like I've received any such message from Three themselves. I'll find out for sure in a couple of days time since as luck would have it I went abroad at the start of this month for the first time since early 2020, and used data without worrying while I was there.

[blitzar]

I havent recieved it yet (I am out of contract > 2 years now) - others who were out of contract got it a few months ago. It appears totally random.

EE have a roaming add-on that may for a cost reproduce the facility, but that was my limited research on the topic, usual disclaimer.

[nsteel]

Over the last 10 years I've used Three a few times for a short while but their reception where I am (in London) has always been awful. However, most recently I tried their 5G home broadband. It worked pretty well but I found a much better deal with Virgin Media so I tried to cancel under their 30 day "money back guarantee" and I've never had such a headache. Their store staff repeatedly lied to my face that it didn't exist (it's still advertised on their website today) and their call-centre staff would hang up on me. Thankfully their Twitter support staff were fantastic and sorted it for me but they could only do so by raising a complaint for me. The whole thing took three months.

What a useless, broken company, AVOID. Incidentally I hear Virgin Media are similarly awful when it comes to customer service.

[Nextgrid]

The truth is that there isn't any consumer-grade telecoms/ISP provider that doesn't have awful support. You need to go enterprise-grade for any kind of competent support, but the prices will follow as well. Only exception to this would be A&A when it comes to DSL, which offers great & competent service at somewhat affordable prices: https://www.aa.net.uk

Your best course of action is to never sign up to a contract (use the 30-day rolling plans) and be ready to switch at the slightest issue. For home/fixed-line, consider having 2 providers for redundancy so you don't lose connectivity while switching.

[mhandley]

I've been a happy customer of A&A for 18 years now - you do pay a little more, but well worth it for the unfiltered service and excellent tech support on the very rare occasion I've had a problem.

[nsteel]

No, that is not true. Like the other commenter here, I used Hyperoptic at my previous flat and they were brilliant. If they had coverage at my new place I'd sign up again in an instant

[MDTHLN]

In regards to ISP’s, I’ve had a lot of luck with some of the new fibre networks.

HyperOptic (who run their own networks) and Zen Internet (CityFibre) have both been excellent for me.

[throwaway4good]

If you do a lot of roaming / international travel, nothing I found, beats 3.

[blitzar]

Greatest feature ever. Sadly they are taking it away customer by customer it seems. Out of principle when they take the roaming from me I will be leaving the network.

[rwky]

I have them as a backup SIM since they have (had) reasonable roaming, sadly this doesn't apply to new plans/sims. That's all they're useful for IMHO.

[thesimon]

Still applies to new PAYG SIMs, which are reasonably cheap

[borissk]

Three is the cheapest and most oversubscribed network. Most of their users still have 4G devices, so getting a 5G phone is a way to get better speed from them in busy areas.

[psychphysic]

Yes similar, truly awful.

Often had to manually switch to 3G for any utility.

Also made the mistake of switching to Smarty their budget brand. Even worse (of course)

[LightG]

Agreed. Which is weird, because they're supposed to be the data specialist in the UK. Ditched them a couple of years ago.