[spicymaki]

The tragic end to the Knights Templar brings to mind David Graeber's idea of bringing back the jubilee: https://davidgraeber.org/articles/after-the-jubilee/

Excerpted from Wikipedia: The Templars were closely tied to the Crusades; as they became unable to secure their holdings in the Holy Land, support for the order faded. Rumors about the Templars' secret initiation ceremony created distrust, and King Philip IV of France, while being deeply in debt to the order, used this distrust to take advantage of the situation. In 1307, he pressured Pope Clement to have many of the order's members in France arrested, tortured into giving false confessions, and then burned at the stake. Under further pressure, Pope Clement V disbanded the order in 1312.

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Perhaps if they were not so scrooge-like, their order would still be around today.

The financial stress of our debt-laden culture has led to deep mistrust, cospiracism, disfunction, environmental harm, and the stunting of growth for developing nations around the world.

We should learn from these stories of the past.

[FredPret]

International banks have spearheaded an absolute explosion in global economic growth. Looking at your story above, Philip was the bad actor and the Templars should've played politics better (maybe lending money to the pope as well?)

[dgb23]

> International banks have spearheaded an absolute explosion in global economic growth.

I assumed it's the other way around. Economic growth comes from technical and cultural advancements. Banks are a symptom of that growth.

[ace32229]

I disagree it is that clear-cut (including GP's inversion). Access to credit is essential to businesses and governments (and individuals).

[dgb23]

Wasn't credit invented before banks were?

[acchow]

> Economic growth comes from technical and cultural advancements.

At the frontier (fully developed economies operating at the current max GDP per capita).

For developing economies, it is just expanding our existing technological advancements into their systems

[FredPret]

Banks are a massively significant cultural innovation. I can pay someone in a different country by pressing a button and it's a reliable, robust system.

In those days, it was a huge deal to be able to pay a merchant in France by giving gold, or even a paper representing ownership of gold, to a bank in England. Before, you had to send the money on a ship and hope for the best.

International banks led to a massive explosion in trade and global prosperity.

[dgb23]

Or is it advancements in communication technology that enables what you describe? What makes a bank an international bank?

[FredPret]

Not really. An international bank is one legal entity in two places. If you deposit 1 kg of gold in place A, your business partner can withdraw it in place B, minus fees of course. The bank still has to transfer the gold to make up the difference at a later date. The benefit is the merchants don’t have to do this themselves anymore.

Think of it as shipping-gold-as-a-service.

[WeylandYutani]

The pope and the Catholic church lost its power a few centuries later. Eventually in Europe everything was subsumed by the government creating all powerful nation states.

[coliveira]

> lending money to the pope

The Pope was the owner of everything. It was, after all, a catholic order. The game here was very much the King of France attacking the money power of the Church, instead of an isolated problem with the Templars.