[bombolo]

I do have such experience and I really can't tell that. Which is why I wondered if anyone else was in fact saying that.

> But here is your internet source for this blatantly obvious fact: https://games.greggman.com/game/dynamic-typing-static-typing...

Ah no I meant a proper peer reviewed source. The claim that untyped code has fewer bugs is completely bonkers, so I was quite sure that no such source existed.

Why do you think microsoft, google and facebook are all in the business of typechecking python? If typechecking would actually introduce bugs, it'd be better not doing it right?

Using github for statistics is flawed. There are millions of 10 line js libraries. Yes it's easy to not make type mistakes in 10 lines. I suppose that type errors increase more than linearly with size.

[hbrn]

> The claim that untyped code has fewer bugs is completely bonkers

Not really. It is, however, quite expensive to measure, because dynamic typing really shines at the evolution of software, that is being able to respond fast to changing requirements. Legos vs play-doh: https://weblog.jamisbuck.org/2008/11/9/legos-play-doh-and-pr...

> Why do you think microsoft, google and facebook are all in the business of typechecking

A billion flies can't be wrong? Companies with unlimited amount of money are not the right place to search for good practices. Both Facebook and Google became flush with cash way before modern type obsession. Sure, once you are a multi-billion dollar company slowing down can be a good thing. But you need to get there first.

> If typechecking would actually introduce bugs, it'd be better not doing it right?

If sugar caused us to die sooner, we'd be better to eating too much if it, right? And yet, here we are.

[ReflectedImage]

"The claim that untyped code has fewer bugs is completely bonkers"

There are plenty of academic sources that will tell you that the number of bugs in a program is directly proportional to the number of lines in the program and static typing has no effect on this.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2898571/basis-for-claim-...

Additionally, statically typed code involves large amounts of boilerplate code in the form of abstract base classes, interfaces, generics, templating, etc. It's a very verbose code style.

It's your turn, find an academic source to backup your claim that static typing reduces the number of bugs. Cause it just isn't true.

Microsoft, google and Facebook have a lot of programmers coming from languages with static typing and want to make Python more familiar.

It's a far distance away from anything resembling good practice.

Actual Python houses typically don't use static typing.

[UncleMeat]

Not across different languages. Create a new version of Java that requires an empty line between each line containing text and bugs won’t double.

[bombolo]

Please don't reply multiple times to the same thing.

> Actual Python houses typically don't use static typing.

If you had ever developed python professionally, you'd know this to be untrue.

Also your "paper" points to a 404 page.

[ReflectedImage]

I have developed in a lot of Python houses.

Given that type hints are a new language feature in Python, please explain to me how these Python houses used static typing when type hints didn't exist?

I'm all ears.

[bombolo]

> Given that type hints are a new language feature in Python, please explain to me how these Python houses used static typing when type hints didn't exist?

They've existed since 2015… please explain me how 2015 is "new"?

[ReflectedImage]

Python has been around since 1991. I'm little bit more experienced than you.

[bombolo]

You seem to have no experience with type hints… You could have acquired this experience but didn't.

No shame, but you are not the most qualified person to comment on typing.

Also python3 is from 2008, and it's effectively a different programming language.

[ReflectedImage]

"If typechecking would actually introduce bugs, it'd be better not doing it right?"

Correct if you misapply a tool to the wrong situation you get poor or negative results.

The right tools are unit testing, integration testing, uat and automated whole system testing.

[bombolo]

That seems to completely forget the fact that libraries exist, that A LOT of bugs can happen calling libraries, and that you're not really supposed to unit test libraries, they are supposed to have their own tests.

[ReflectedImage]

Unit tests test the parts of the library that are in use implicitly.

As does integration testing, user acceptance testing and whole system testing (QA engineers, frontend testing, etc.)

Nothing has been forgotten. Python isn't Java, nor should you develop your Python code as if it were Java. Python has it's own software development practices that take advantage of the language's strengths including dynamic typing.

It you don't know how to work with a dynamically typed language properly, that's on you. And I guarantee you will get poor results pretending it's a statically typed language.

[bombolo]

> It you don't know how to work with a dynamically typed language properly, that's on you. And I guarantee you will get poor results pretending it's a statically typed language.

Insulting me won't make you a better developer nor a better person :)

Getting started with type hints is not easy, but it can be done incrementally and it is worth it.

If you haven't used them, please learn before insulting people who are more experienced than you.

[ReflectedImage]

Using static typing in a dynamically typed language will always make you a poor software engineer who doesn't understand the tools they use nor the engineering trade-offs involved.

But sure continue to hammer in nails with a screwdriver, it's only your own time you are wasting.

And I've noticed you failed to provide any sources whatsoever for your nonsense.

[bombolo]

> And I've noticed you failed to provide any sources whatsoever for your nonsense.

As opposed to your 404 "peer reviewed paper"? :D

> Using static typing in a dynamically typed language will always make you a poor software engineer

Making broad statements about things you've never used yourself just makes you an arrogant guy on the internet who is quite likely to be a poor software engineer with a big ego.