[jrm4]

Honestly -- just why?

We now have a few years of experience with music streaming. And what we've learned is that -- sure, it's convenient -- but honestly hasn't much improved the lot of artists and musicians. It's a new exploitative system that's perhaps slightly better than the old exploitative system.

We can do better. Literally, locally, and for friends. I used to do MPD, but now I'm glad for things like mstream that make this sort of thing even easier. I hope funkwhale and other federated things do better as well.

[civopsec]

Why are people using a streaming service instead of buying thousands of dollars worth of CDs (or for that matter, iTunes)? Is this a question?

[jrm4]

This has never been the dichotomy; but now that you mention it -- actually, yeah. I'd rather spend thousands of dollars on CDs (in that environment where shopping for them was like it used to be) than iTunes (etc., which I've tried but never found worth continually paying for)

[rblatz]

There are still music stores, nothing is stopping you from buying music like we did before Napster let the cat out of the bag. People are allowed to have different utility functions and preferences, sorry yours seems to be going out of fashion.

[jrm4]

I mean, come on, that's just false. There are not "still music stores" in any meaningful way.

[dtx1]

Meh, I always pirated music before Spotify. Then I got a free test account and now am a happy paying customer for forever. As soon as someone with a reasonably similar library and better linux integration than a half abandoned electron app comes along i'll switch.If Artists feel so bad about they should form a union and collectively bargain for a better position.

[iamacyborg]

> If Artists feel so bad about they should form a union and collectively bargain for a better position

They can't, major record labels and major artists are working with Spotify to fuck everyone else.

[Bluecobra]

I'm sure someone will find a use case for this. For example, a long time ago I hooked up a Raspberry pi to my receiver/speaker system and used mplayer to keep a persistent connection to a remote Internet radio stream. Whenever I wanted to listen to it, all I need to do was turn on my receiver and select that audio interface.

[nyx_land]

The fact that this is receiving downboats and 'but muh convenience, artists deserve to get fucked over because Spotify found a better way to exploit human psychology!' is truly an orange site moment. I pirate the majority of the music I listen to (and most artists except for super rich mainstream ones would rather their music spread as much as possible than receive literal pennies from a Spotify stream) and buy stuff from Bandcamp when an artist is actually still around and making stuff. I never listen to ads and have all the files saved locally in lossless formats. I've never had a Spotify account for anything other than a podcast that is exclusive to it and have never cared to switch, and can't even use the excuse that I'm too old and stubborn in my ways.

[14u2c]

Some impressive cognitive dissonance here.

[jrm4]

This is absolutely a great way to do it, morally.

[civopsec]

Exploit human psychology?

[richwater]

> but honestly hasn't much improved the lot of artists and musicians

As a consumer of music, why is this my problem?

[iamacyborg]

This is a rhetorical question, right?

If you consume music then surely, you want the artists and musicians you support to be paid fairly for their work.

[yamtaddle]

I prefer a world that supports artists to one that doesn't, but from a purely selfish perspective, there's already so much recorded music that I do love or will, if/when I eventually discover it, love, that I wouldn't run out of novel, great material that's to my taste, in two lifetimes. There are whole major genres I've barely even touched so far.

The effect on my lifetime QOL would be basically zero if no new commercial music were created ever again.

[meltedcapacitor]

Between dead artists and art-for-art-sake artists we're not gonna run out of stuff to listen to, even if intellectual property was abolished tomorrow morning (as it should be). It only works for the 1 percent at the top anyway (due to power law distribution).

[strken]

Can you or jrm4 explain why Spotify's royalty system (a 70/30 split in favour of the rights holder) is unfair?

If I had to guess I'd say it convinces artists to license their work for less money than they'd make if they stuck it on Bandcamp, but I'm not certain, and neither of you has explained it.

[jrm4]

I specifically said "hasn't improved much" instead of "unfair" because I do realize that it wasn't particularly fair before?

At present, it seems like the most fair thing would be to just be honest about the fact that royalties from Spotify and royalties from piracy for the vast majority of artists is roughly equal. :)

[iamacyborg]

Spotify don’t pay 70/30 and the actual payout is not related to what individuals actually listen to.

For example, I could spend a month listening to only indie artists, but the lion’s share of my subscription would be paid out to major labels.

[strken]

The Hypebot explanation suggests it's more complicated than that: https://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2021/11/how-spotify-royaltie...

I have no idea whether it's correct or not.

[civopsec]

Why is that “surely”?

[iamacyborg]

You're right, my bad, I assumed most folks would have a base level of empathy.

[smolyeet]

Well , it’s either I listen to it using this easy platform for us common folk, or I don’t listen to them at all. Or i pirate. It’s not that deep , you can get off your high horse.

[e-v]

There's no high horse. Your message doesn't answer the argument. The fact (A) that one wouldn't buy music if Spotify weren't available is not related to (B) not caring about how Spotify treats artists.

Even if A is true, it doesn't imply that one has no empathy for artists.

[fullshark]

Potentially great music is not being made as a result of people not devoting time and energy to the craft I guess. Also just general empathy.

[civopsec]

You guess?

Music is like the last thing that will stop being made because people can’t professionalize their craft.

[fullshark]

You don't think it has any impact? Even on the margins? I think it's basically expected that musicians will give up some day and join the working world, in part because it's so hard to make a living in. If it's harder to make a living -> more people give up -> less music. If it's easier -> fewer people give up -> more music.

[civopsec]

It’s not a question of whether it has no impact or not because that’s irrelevant. You would actively have to punish people for making music in order for music not to be made—that’s how strong that force is. (Well heck, maybe more music would be made in that case, out of spite and rebellion.)

[fullshark]

No music at all is not the concern, music you like not being made by artists you admire is the concern. This is basically the entire premise of Patreon btw.

[hutzlibu]

Yes, that is true.

But there is quantity and there is quality.

So surely there would be also some gifted people who happen to have the luxory to focus completely on the music they want to make, but those would be the exception.