[nopenopenopeno]

That and collective withholding of the labor power of the working class (strikes) are the only 2 ways any national ruling class has ever been meaningfully opposed. Take your pick and do everything you can to make it happen first.

[dang]

Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34057162. (This is not a response to the content of your comment here. I'm just adding a reply to your most recent post since the previous comment is already a day or two old. It doesn't seem fair to do that if you don't see it.)

[colechristensen]

That is a very shallow angry view of the modern world which leaves out so many methods the people have successfully used to exercise their power.

Voting, for example.

I, for one, will likely never be in a position where it makes sense to go on strike and you won’t find me with a pitchfork and torch at the home of the latest social target. There are other methods, and much more needed ones than strife and violence in the 21st century.

[mxkopy]

Game theory says otherwise. If there's a substantive distinction between the rich and the poor, then the interests that align them need to be greater than their own individual interests for any sort of peace to work. As it stands, the rich frequently engage in bottom-of-the-barrel, self-interested machinations, so it makes 0 sense from a game perspective for the poor to refrain from doing the same.

The obvious answer is to make the distinction not substantive, i.e. have a middle class; unfortunately the U.S. seems too preoccupied with other things to enact this solution

[hayst4ck]

This game:

https://ncase.me/trust/

Showcases exactly the point mxkopy is making.

When you let people who defect profit, then you will create more defectors. Lack of punishment makes crime a winning strategy.

[WalterBright]

> the rich frequently engage in bottom-of-the-barrel, self-interested machinations

Of course they do. So do you, and everyone else.

[DFHippie]

In a certain sense this is true. Giving to charity is a self-interested machination because the giver gets something out of the transaction: satisfaction, a belief in their own goodness and self-worth, the esteem of others, maybe a ticket to heaven. But in a more useful sense this is false. We use "self-interested machinations" to describe things that are deceptive and harmful to others, not adopting puppies. Even people who apply the nihilistic self-interest-all-the-way down argument to neutralize criticism in one case will tend to abandon it in another and become the critic.

[TaylorAlexander]

In the fight between the rich and poor, voting is not very effective when both parties have been captured by the wealthy.

However there are effective non-violent means of change, like organizing labor power, mutual aid, and supporting legal funds to help get the laws changed.

[TaylorAlexander]

And unfortunately they severely curtailed the potential for mass strikes in 1947: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act