[jonux]

Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America".

Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for heating i just simply a bad idea. Never understood how this is even remotely OK in the US. This is illegal in most of Europe. And for good reason.

If it is around Celcius -40 then you would never turn off the vehicle. And a bit over that - there is always the Russian option of having a large candle below the oil tray (bad english, but you get it... under the engine) for pre heating. The more mainstream option is plugged in electric heating of coolant water.

I remember from my days in the Swedish army that there was a pre heating scheme for the drivers where specific spots on trucks APC's and such should be heated by gas light.

Usually it is sufficient to start the engine, clean the windows from ice, and then get going. A short engine running time without load for letting oils and fluids melt is only sane. Actually heating the cabin is nothing but wasteful.

[bbbbb5]

>Wow. That would be "nearly every modern gas vehicle in north America".

>Seriously. Running a cold petrol engine under low load in freezing conditions only for heating i just simply a bad idea. Never understood how this is even remotely OK in the US. This is illegal in most of Europe. And for good reason.

My German BMW 7 series definitely had remote start (and an auxiliary heater too). Maybach GLS has an auxiliary heater.

These are hardly uncommon features in vastly cheaper cars either. Various Webasto systems have been around for ages, often installed by OEMs.

[mcspiff]

In Canada, electric block heaters for the engine are fairly common as well: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater . Similar concept to fire under the engine, but a bit more modern

[nszceta]

> Actually heating the cabin is nothing but wasteful.

Americans value comfort and they get it. Europeans want it too but they can't afford it (taxation and energy scarcity)

[Reason077]

It's to do with safety, not economics. Remote start on a combustion vehicle presents a carbon monoxide poisoning risk. This is perhaps more significant in Europe where more people park indoors and in confined spaces.

Pretty much any EV in Europe has a remote cabin heating feature. If it were about energy and economics, wouldn't that be banned also?

[nightski]

If you are parked indoors you don't need remote start. Our garage stays about 32F degrees even when it is -10F out. The entire point of remote start is for the case when you are parked outside, such as at work.

[Reason077]

Sure, but is the car actually smart enough to detect when it's indoors and block remote start? Many countries ban or restrict remote start features due to the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning.

In any case, not all indoor parking is climate-controlled. It's nice to be able to remotely warm (or cool, in summer) the cabin to a pleasant temperature before you arrive! 32F is still pretty chilly.

[rosnd]

> Pretty much any EV in Europe has a remote cabin heating feature

Surely pretty much any equivalent gas car remote cabin heating too, it's a very common feature.

[Reason077]

> "Surely pretty much any equivalent gas car remote cabin heating too, it's a very common feature."

Remote cabin heating in a gas car requires a "remote start" feature, which is illegal in many European countries - particularly Germany. This is not a common feature in Europe, except in EVs.

[Gud]

Not sure where you’re getting this info from, but it’s wrong. 1) remote start is not required 2) auxiliary heaters are very common

[rosnd]

No it doesn't. It just requires an auxiliary heater, which has been a common feature in cars sold in Europe for at least 20 years. It's a feature you can find in cars sold during the 80s, like the W214.

> This is not a common feature in Europe, except in EVs.

It's a common feature in fancy cars and has been so for ages. Most EVs definitely fall into the fancy car category.

[Reason077]

Fair point, but what, maybe 5% or so of gas cars are fancy enough to have a fuel-burning auxiliary heater in Europe? (not just Scandinavia)

Where as most EVs have a "remote HVAC control" feature - even the pretty basic ones. And EVs, of course, will cool the cabin in summer time as well, something that an auxiliary heater can't do.

[foxyv]

For $30-40 you can buy a block heater. They are a very nice to have in cold weather.

https://www.amazon.com/KENUOS-Thermostat-Self-Adhesive-Dipst...

[prottog]

> the oil tray (bad english, but you get it... under the engine)

It's almost perfect English -- it's called an oil pan ;-)