[phailhaus]

> Imo it's part of being a professional to be able to answer the question "what are you working on".

If they need an end-of-year self review to determine that, something has gone horribly wrong. They already know what I'm working on: they're the ones that assigned me to it, and I report on it regularly in standups. So what's the point of the review? If they don't already know what value I'm bringing, that's a red flag.

[rrrrrrrrrrrr2]

Why would you hire someone who refuses to summarize for you, once or twice a year, just at a high level, what they accomplished.

Suppose you hired a plumber who refused out of principle to tell you whether or not they fixed your toilet.

That's what I mean by it's professionalism.

[eppp]

I suppose if I hire someone that I would know why I hired them and I would check the toilet to see if it worked, regardless of what the plumber said.

[rrrrrrrrrrrr2]

At what frequency would you check? Is polling the toilet really more efficient than receiving a "plumbing complete" event from the plumber?

[kqr]

Sure it is. As long as the toilet works when you need it, you (a) don't actually have to check, and (b) the plumber is free to sequence their tasks in an optimal fashion.

The message from the plumber is based on the assumption that the default state of things is that the plumber has not done their job and things don't work. If you feel like that's the default state of things, you should choose a different plumber, not ask for notifications about which things don't work.

[rrrrrrrrrrrr2]

1. Current (default) state: toilet broke.

2. I call plumber.

3. Plumber fix.

4. New state: toilet work.

kqr: "Hi Mr. Plumber, could you let me know when 3-->4 happens. I need to use it once you're done, but I'm busy and don't have time to micromanage or continuously observe your work on the toilet."

(plumber's gaze narrows) "No. Fuck you, kqr. Fuck you, I'm not telling you jack shit. I have rights and dignity as a professional."

kqr: Wow, what a great plumber. I'd hire that person again.

[sarchertech]

>kqr: "Hi Mr. Plumber, could you let me know when 3-->4 happens. I need to use it once you're done, but I'm busy and don't have time to micromanage or continuously observe your work on the toilet."

plumber: Done sir! Your new toilets ready to go.

(6 months pass during which time the plumber completed some other work that was done satisfactorily and approved by the client)

kqr: I'm trying to decide whether I should keep using you Mr. Plumber. Please write me a few pages summarizing all the work you've done for me over the past 6 months. Make sure you emphasize how it has helped me move my KPIs, and how it helped me look good to my wife. Make sure talk about how the work you did contributed to our objectives as a family. Also make sure to add a bit about how you have developed as a plumber over the last 6 months and how you plan to continue to develop over the next.

[kqr]

If my toiletry needs were large enough to hire a plumber to spend 40 hours a week in my home, I would not expect the plumber to tell me when the toilet works again. I would expect the toilet to work, period.

Clearly, I would have two toilets for redundancy (much cheaper than 40 weekly hours of plumber time). In the rare occasion when both are broken at the same time I would expect the plumber to volunteer that information. The brokenness is the exception, the workingness the default assumption.

[stcroixx]

Since I gave them the work, I don't need them to summarize what I already know. Waste of time. I'd rather they continue working on their assigned tasks.

[mhss]

See my answer above. You're assuming is easy for management to know exactly what you're doing. This will vary from org to org and how many reports do they have, how complex the work is, how much autonomy everyone has, etc;

Sure, you can take the stance "they should know", but then don't complain when even well-intentioned managers can lose perspective or miss some of your accomplishments when is time to recognize your efforts (promo, raises, etc).

I consider myself a "well intentioned" manager, I care about my team and their work, try to keep up with the details, etc; but there's just too much going on at a large organization and I'm fallible. I may forget, or fail to see the complexity and value of something someone did (even my own accomplishments). There's nothing wrong with advocating for yourself and making your manager aware of your stance. If there's disagreement about how valuable something I did is I'd rather know when having that conversation. I may learn my manager cares more about x/y/z and not something I thought it was valuable but turns out is not important for the org or my manager for some reason I wasn't aware of.