[rajup]

Masks are unlikely to have protected you much unless it’s a tight fitting n95 mask worn around the clock. This topic has been beaten to death on here, not sure why people continue to cling on to masks as anything other than security theater.

[basch]

The primary mechanism these things are spread by is water droplets in the air expelled from the nose and mouth. A sick person wearing a mask will expel more moisture into the mask, and less into the air.

None of this is binary. It's not sick or not sick. There is a viral load component, where a persons body can fight off a certain amount of virus.

[ch4s3]

I was under the impression that droplets are only part of the picture and that sick people are in fact spraying tons of much small particles into the air as they breathe.

[basch]

droplets and airborne is a somewhat arbitrary distinction pulled out of .. thin air.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwu...

Whether the droplet/aerosol float through the air has to do with much more than particle size.

"There was just one literally tiny problem: “The physics of it is all wrong,” Marr says. That much seemed obvious to her from everything she knew about how things move through air. Reality is far messier, with particles much larger than 5 microns staying afloat and behaving like aerosols, depending on heat, humidity, and airspeed."

[ch4s3]

That's not my point at all. I didn't make the droplet vs airborne distinction.

I mean that the masks can and do stop some droplets and larger particles, but smaller particles pass through and around them readily. It seems like really small particles might be causing infections with newer variants. But I'm also not sure what we even know for sure about this at the moment. A lot of mask research has been don with modeling or lab setups to spray liquids through them. The narrower set of real world studies cast a lot of doubt on anything but N95s worn properly. So I'm not sure where that leaves us.

[basch]

That goes back to its not binary. Less viral load is less viral load. Masks are not a complete solution.

At the end of the day the goal appears to be to reduce spread and reinfection to minimize the load on the hospital system.

[ch4s3]

The question I have is, do masks actually lower viral load meaningfully if the individual viruses are being shed and blown through the mask? Put another way, particles large enough to be stopped by most masks may not be the primary vector of infection for new strains of COVID and we have no real clue.

[endisneigh]

Someone sick should be staying home, not going into grocery stores with a mask on.

[basch]

I am not disagreeing. However, the premise of normal masks is primarily for sick people to not spread disease.

"It is important to wear a mask or respirator when you are sick or caring for someone who is sick with COVID-19."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si...

"Wear a high-quality and well-fitting mask if you must be around others (for example: going to get tested), even in your home."

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/sick.htm...

Framing masking as protecting the wearer was done to psychologically make people care. People are more likely to care about themselves, than others.

[sn0wf1re]

How else would they get food? Not everyone can afford to order in. Is your opinion that these people should just starve?

[haswell]

While I agree that the parent comment is making huge assumptions about delivery options people have access to (both for geographical and for cost reasons), there are options in the middle.

The majority of stores (grocery and otherwise) introduced curbside pickup options early in the pandemic, which at least provides more options for someone who doesn't have access to or can't afford delivery, while removing or minimizing the time they need to spend in-store.

Not a perfect solution, but the options are not "delivery or starve".

[sn0wf1re]

Can you provide a reference to a discount grocer (since you are replying to a comment about affordability) that offers curb-side or delivery without fee? I am not aware of any.

[haswell]

The moving of the goalposts aside (which were originally "order in or starve"), Target and Walmart are two major examples, since you specifically mentioned “discount”, and all of the major grocery stores in my metro area (Chicago, so YMMV) have a curbside pickup option.

Some of them charge a service fee for pickups under $35, but from what I recall, the bigger chains do not. And with prices these days, you'd be hard pressed to do a grocery run that costs less than $35 unless you need a single item, but if you only need a single item, this is no longer a conversation about starving.

As for free delivery, I believe some of them offer free delivery for orders over a certain size, but I was focused specifically on non-delivery options.

Bottom line: there are many more options than “go in the store or starve”.

[endisneigh]

Ideally you have enough food in your fridge to last without daily trips to the grocery store, so no, not starving.

[sn0wf1re]

COVID symptoms (coughing in particular, which is a big spreader of particles) can last weeks. I don't know many people with multiple weeks worth of food in their fridge unless they have a deepfreeze (large chest freezer).

[acheron]

That's hardly a good faith interpretation of the post you're responding to. Do you actually want to discuss something or are you just looking to insult people?

[dietr1ch]

Most could ask friend or family for help. Not wanting to bother someone else is silly, since it results in bothering way more than one person.

[sn0wf1re]

> Not wanting to bother someone else is silly, since it results in bothering way more than one person

I agree with you.

> Most could ask friend or family for help

Most but not all. An alternative is asking a stranger (government programs where I am ended almost a year ago), strangers are kinder than people realize. But asking for help is challenging for many people.

[jonahhorowitz]

You're contagious for 2 days before you have symptoms. You should wear a mask if you're around other people.

[basch]

Not disagreeing. I am pointing out the mask is to block the spreader, moreso than shield the recipient.

[endisneigh]

People should wear a mask if they’d like, yes. But ultimately social distancing and getting vaccinated is the best strategy.

[roflyear]

Sure, if you KNOW you're sick. Often you are contagious without feeling sick. Or maybe you just feel a LITTLE sick but still go to the store.

[farnsworth]

Can't believe we're still arguing about whether pErSoNaL rEsPoNsIbIlItY will save us

[VirusNewbie]

I guess I’m skeptical, isn’t the majority of covid spread through prolonged close contact? Running into a grocery store without a mask for fifteen minutes seems extremely low risk compared to other activities.

[basch]

Is 1000 people expelling one breath, the same as one person expelling 1000 breaths?

It has to do with ventilation too. Taller ceilings probably help. Lower humidity.

Choir is probably a great example of something where closeness isnt the only factor.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwu...

[gernb]

I recently got it via short contact (3 weeks ago, was positive until yesterday, still have a cough).

I went to an amusement park. None of the people I was hanging out with had it nor tested positive before or after (they were all testing regularly) so the only other explanations are random people I passed at the park, food that was contaminated, or random covid virus in the air.

Of course my getting it via short contact does not invalidate the idea that most of it is spread via prolonged contact. But, given I just caught it via short contact I'm not going to stop taking prevenative measures in situations with only short contacts.

[2OEH8eoCRo0]

Protection isn't binary. At society scale these small changes add up.

[aaroninsf]

Because it's not security theater, as has been demonstrated time and again FFS

It's trivially easy to acquire authentic N95s today.

People just won't wear them, so, we all suffer.

[adamsb6]

The evidence is pretty mixed, and even the studies showing the strongest effects have mask wearing yielding something like a 50% reduction in transmission.

I haven't seen anyone model what this looks like on longer timescales. Does this mean that you're just delaying the inevitable? If so, and the disease is mild and we're not going to overwhelm hospitals with the infected, what's the benefit?

[fullmoon]

Austria has mandated N95s for months.

No improvement in comparison to neighboring countries could be demonstrated.

Mostly because it was pure theater and no attempt at proof was even made.

[jeffbee]

You can't do a study that way. People do or do not wear masks based on emergent social acceptance, regardless of government actions. If you want to do a discontinuity study you have to evaluate actual mask usage in the real world and discover a boundary discontinuity. You can't just do it by jurisdiction and assume that the government proclamations work. People wear masks when they aren't required, and they may not wear them when they are required.

[fullmoon]

I’m well aware.

Yet we’ve been hearing since the beginning of 2021 that they’ve been proven to have been much more efficient by the coalition parliament which has come up with this idea.

[jonahhorowitz]

I wear a flomask every day when I'm out and about and it works great. You don't need to wear it "around the clock." You just need to wear it when you're inside and there are people around you who might be infected.

[uhtred]

Masks are primarily for protecting other people, you cough and sneeze and breathe out infected water droplets into the mask- not other people's faces.

Why do people like you have such anger about mask wearing?

[gjsman-1000]

> not other people's faces

Well, in that case, it's easy. Other people who are concerned can wear a mask, and said water droplets will land on their mask instead of their face. Problem solved, we have no conflict.

As for why we hate it, here's a good reason for me personally. I have to wear glasses, as I have an extreme prescription coupled with astigmatism. It's so bad LASIK is (or at least, was) high-risk. Wearing a mask with glasses is a miserable experience - you can't stop fogging them up without touching your mask every several minutes to adjust it, defeating the point because you're not supposed to touch it. In which case, wearing a mask (for me) is a self-defeating exercise. There are other reasons but that's my personal biggest one.

[justin66]

> worn around the clock

I'm reluctantly curious what your thinking is on that.

[deanc]

At this point, I’d tend to agree. However, this is a bit of a broad and inaccurate statement. Wearing masks gave society time to catch up in terms of vaccinations and other measures.