[CharlesW]

> what is the risk tradeoff for a young child, who effectively has zero risk of serious covid?

This is only true if you consider death the only "serious" outcome. Around 25% of children and adolescents who get COVID-19 will get "long COVID", with long-term effects we've just begun to understand. Plenty of "young-ish healthy people" have suffered debilitating effects.

[blub]

Vaccines don’t make a major difference against Long Covid. 14-25% reduction in risk I read.

At this efficiency level they’re not an adequate preventive measure.

[yakak]

A 14℅ reduction in something that happens to 5%+ of people measurably and probably lowers your developmental outcome even if it is bellow the threshold of clear measure (a weaker school year that you never quite catch up from could just be random after all.)

That's a much bigger deal than whether you have 12 in a million or 24 in a million chance of something that has a 5% chance of being fatal.

Giving a population lead poisoning didn't kill any of them outright but cognitive problems in the lead generation is correlated to our higher homicide rates and many of the poorer outcomes in our generation and echo's of its affects in society.

I find it interesting that the wider anti-vax demographics overlap heavily with the safety/helicopter parenting that focuses on some extremely unlikely demise as a reason to limit the next generation in ways that will have much higher rates of earlier deaths and reduced lifestyles when considering their overall lifespan.

[blub]

You sound like somebody that likes to crunch numbers, but doesn’t understand how most parents decide on these things. Or if you happen to have children, you’re unusually clinical about their health…

Anyway, the children’s vaccine was authorized in the EU on the 19th of October 2022, after all Omicron strains were making rounds through the population.

In Germany at first one dose was recommended for 12-17 then one plus booster. Kids younger than 12 may be vaccinated on a case by case basis if there’s risk factors or the parent explicitly wants it. This means that the risk of Long Covid in this age range is not a “bigger deal” than the benefits and risk from the vaccine.

According to the RKI, there were 1500 vaccinated in the age range 0-4. And between <10% and 30% in the range 5-12 depending on state.

In conclusion, your dogmatic approach is not supported by the competent health organizations. Neither is it supported by parents.

[spopejoy]

> doesn't understand how most parents decide on these things

> your dogmatic approach is not ... supported by parents

Your dogma here is that you assume all parents take the zero-sum "ok for thine but not for mine" approach. Personally I know plenty of parents who were eager to vaccinate their kids against COVID. But I'm not taking my personal outlook as some kind of fact about all parents.

Instead I will note that in the history of vaccine mandates there has always been opposition from a _minority_ of parents, doctors what have you in the context of broad societal support, even though vaccines have always had some amount of risk that similarly to COVID were vastly outweighed by the societal benefit and the risks of the disease itself.

[blub]

You naughtily cut my quote and removed “supported by the competent health organizations”. I added that back for you.

Allow me to expand on that: the parents which didn’t vaccinate their children (<12) are the ones who are in agreement with “the science” and they are the majority. I’ve provided numbers for Germany from the appropriate health organizations.

The parents that vaccinated their healthy kids are the ones that decided based on feelings or were influenced and manipulated by vaccine activists.

The risk to society must be handled by the society, not kids. Adults are welcome to wear masks or get the vaccine themselves. Or they can choose to die free, choking on their own mucus like a boss.

The risk of the disease is obviously not that great to kids (<12) according to the vaccine commission. Almost looks like adults are trying to force kids into a treatment so that said adults benefit.

[nyolfen]

i believe i have found the source[0] for your claim -- this seems a bit overplayed as 'long covid' when the definition is given as any persistent symptom, including congestion and emotional state(?)

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-13495-5#Sec6

[faddypaddy34]

The long COVID myth is being debunked.

[willcipriano]

Essentially all children and adolescents will get Covid if they somehow haven't had it already. Something like a quarter of the population being physically disabled to even a mild degree is an extraordinary claim requiring evidence in kind.

[Bud]

I guess it's fortunate that we have almost three years' worth of data conclusively establishing this fact, then!

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2022/...

[willcipriano]

A survey essentially asking people "do you have long covid?" isn't extraordinary evidence. Could be a simple case of psychogenesis[0] like has been common during any mass illness event historically. The demographic info in your link seems to indicate that is a possibility. With 25 percent of the population apparently having this disease it's not a hard one to study experimentally.

[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_psychogenic_illness

[Bud]

Except that we have all kinds of other indicators of this phenomenon as well.

[nyolfen]

surprisingly high! how many of those children were vaccinated?