[dextorious]

"""I used this argument for Java, but it's the same with C++. If I can deliver a first version 2 months before the C++ version gets ready, I'll have two months to optimize market-tested algorithms before you hit the market. I may even have time to rewrite the sensitive parts in C."""

Yeah, the only problem with that logic is that it never happens.

(Except in the server space, where it doesn't matter what language you're using to make your web app, and you can throw more server boxes at it to make it go faster).

1) Very few commercial programs are made with some dynamic language as opposed to C/C++, and none in the fields where performance matters (games, video, multimedia) etc.

2) Some do incorporate a scripting language, but for non critical layers (Lightroom for example uses Lua for its UI scripting, but all image crunching is in C/C++).

3) It's not like time to market matters that much. You're not building Facebook, you're building a desktop app. Chances are a lot more exist in the same section of the market.

4) """For many things the world really moved on.""" --care to give some examples of successful desktop apps not written in C/C++?

I'm sure you'll find 10.

I doubt you'll find 20.

[rbanffy]

Desktop apps are becoming a niche. I used to have an e-mail client, a spreadsheet, word processor, groupware, project management and an IDE installed on my machine. Now all I need is a browser and a text editor (although it's Emacs).

It still makes sense to use C/C++/hand-tuned assembly for high-performance things like game engines, 3D modeling, audio/video processing and so on. While my current OS is written mostly in C, I am old enough to remember (and have used) technically successful OSs written in things like Smalltalk, Lisp, PL/M and Algol.

Like I said, C makes sense for a lot of things. It's just not as important as it was 20 years ago.

[dextorious]

"""Desktop apps are becoming a niche. I used to have an e-mail client, a spreadsheet, word processor, groupware, project management and an IDE installed on my machine. Now all I need is a browser and a text editor (although it's Emacs)."""

People say that, but I don't see it. The Mac App Store has sold millions of apps already. And the iTunes App Store has sold a BILLION native (non browser) mobile apps.

If you only need is "a browser and a text editor" good for you. I need: a media player, a text editor, a word processor, an IDE, a chat client, Evernote, Dropbox, Skitch, Photoshop, VMWare Fusion, and some other stuff besides...

[rbanffy]

> People say that, but I don't see it.

It all depends on where you look at. I can't remember the last corporate software piece I saw being delivered as a desktop application.

Stand-alone software for iOS has one advantage over web applications in that users sometimes face lack of connectivity. The Facebook app, IIRC, is delivered as a standalone app, but, in reality, is nothing but a web application. It's not alone and there are definite advantages to their approach. Most software appears to be entertainment - games, social thingies etc. They are the kind of games one would expect to be delivered as a Flash application within a brorser on a desktop.

I am not familiar enough with the Mac App Store, but, while there are some more "serious" offerings, in line with the desktop apps I mentioned, most of them appear to be, again, games and other entertainment related stuff. That and front-ends to net-centric applications such as Evernote.