[fleddr]

What motivates the opposite?

It's true that there's always generational tensions, and the funny thing is that people now young are going to do exactly the same thing when they get older. In that sense, it's cyclic.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss gaps or issues unique to a generation. In the interest of the new generation as well as the older ones.

I'd say smartphone-addiction is a serious and impactful one. One of my friends owns a wood processing company. These youngsters simply abandon their station (a massive machine) and go take a dump for 30 mins, playing on their phone. Multiple times per day. Simply shutting down production altogether.

Another friend owns a logistics company, order picking and such. He doesn't want to take away their phones, tried to solve it with warnings. Yet he keeps finding them hiding in shelves, on their phones. Like heroine addicts.

My sister-in-law works in a large grocery store, and reports that this generation calls in sick 4 times more than anybody else. They very regularly simply can't be bothered to show up at all.

Earlier young generations were not this broken, unproductive, disloyal, addicted and useless. It's a real and serious issue.

[wingely]

Why must we motivate the opposite when the answers to these conflicts are in front of us? When a younger generation lacks a skill, don’t complain and blame them for it—they’re the ones who are new here—figure out how to train them. When an expectation is violated then interrogate the expectation on both sides of the equation—-many people simply don’t know how to act in certain situations because there wasn’t clear communication from those in power. And if a large enough group exhibits a behavior habitually then don’t make them conform—your workforce has changed and you need to adapt to that for a thriving business.

Another thing is that I disagree with the statement that Gen Z is broken. They are as much a product of their time as the generations preceding them. Individuals belonging to older generations need to remember that they had to grow into the person they are today.

[fleddr]

No. The workplace isn't there to teach you basic discipline, good faith effort, self-control over your urges and basic reliability. These things are to be expected from the very start. For every generation. This is the first to fail this lowest of all tests.

There are no mysteries here about what to do or how to behave. When you work at a place, you do the work. You show up and do the work. That's it. It's not a skill problem, it's a behavioral problem.

Are there larger forces at work causing this? Yes. Overprotective and distant parenting. Pampering. Addictive tech. Zero effort convenience services. No hardships. No accountability. No social skills. Spending 18 years of your life on easy mode, and then being plunged into the real world.

[wingely]

I think we fundamentally disagree about this. Teaching those skills is what an entry level job is supposed to do for someone. Then they level up, make mistakes, and learn some more as they gain experience in their profession.

It sounds like the argument you are pushing is that anyone but the business owner is at fault for what employees know and how they behave. While some of that is true, it’s disingenuous to demand that employees will come in knowing what a business owner expects out of them or have the context specific skills to do a job. Reflect on your own experiences here. Can you genuinely state that your personal work history shows a perfect employee who always knew what to do? C’mon. Be real.

[fleddr]

You're overthinking the situation here.

We're talking about a job where you attend a machine, feed it things and push 3 buttons. We're talking about picking orders. Here's the order. Collect it. And do this for 8 hours per day.

I started doing simple jobs at the age of 11. Here's a car. Wash it. Here's bricks, bring them to the brick laying guy. I think I would have understood those concepts at the age of 6.

There's no unclarity about expectations. A job surely is not some alien concept where at the age of 18 the very idea of work is unheard of?

It's not a skill issue, it's work ethic, and behavior. You're paid to work, not to be on your phone.

[wingely]

That’s a cute reduction, but the case being made doesn’t account for workers being humans in an ever evolving society. A job is, in fact, an alien concept to someone who has never had one before. And even people who have had jobs may have never been trained in a way that works for all employers. You’re making a moral judgment against the people with the least power in the employer-employee relationship. If a business owner wants the big bucks then their work ethic should be reflected in the training and care they take when bringing in new employees. What you’re talking about is closer to slavery than employment.