[kristopolous]

Maybe I'm misreading things ... let me try again based on your initial comment:

> if you believe China is a dystopian state why would a Chinese tech product that isn't even allowed in it's international form within China not itself "dystopian"

^^ The classification here as "chinese" tech product is the first issue

> imo the most dystopian thing about TikTok is the fact that China intentionally exports a highly addictive product that they don't allow their own people to use

^^ second issue is "china intentionally exports"

At least I read this as if there's an assumption there's some centralized bureau of dictats speaking with one voice in orchestrating policy as opposed to an $18 trillion economy with 1.4 billion people consisting of 43 million companies and a parliamentary system with 3155 members representing 10 political parties including 480 independents.

Everything is actually a confusing complicated hot mess and I reject such attributions and framings.

That's not to say there aren't policies, of course there are. It's more to say that if you are not only describing but also attributing intentionality and goals to an international policy in a way that takes under say, 10 words, I'm going to be suspicious of the accuracy.

[akomtu]

The centralized bureau is called CCP.

TikTok's main power is creating associations. For example, CCP may dislike some US politician because he is a trouble for Huawei, so TikTok starts subtly pushing videos that associate that politician with bad stuff. In a few weeks 150 millions US citizens have a strong negative reaction to that politician. TikTok may do the same for targeted high-profile individuals, e.g. family members of congressmen or high rank CIA officers. That is an immense power.

[kristopolous]

Have any direct, verifiable, falsifiable and testable evidence with clear a audit trail?

I'd love to see it

Sorry for the high bar. Remarkable stories of secret vast networks of communist mind control have a long history. I claim aggressive skepticism of supposed international plots by a cabal of communist puppetmasters is warranted.

I mean Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, real spies. Not saying this stuff is impossible, there's just a lot of noise here.

Hell there's the long forgotten 1980s espionage by the Japanese stealing stuff from IBM https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/02/09/Hitachi-pleads-guilt... stuff does happen... Espionage in the Silicon Valley, a book published in 1984, is a pretty good summary of them if you're really interested. You'll have to toss about $20 on the used market to get a copy though. (I should send mine to internet archive)

[akomtu]

You're surprisingly passionate about defending TikTok and CCP.

Also, I want to note how your comment is structured:

1. Demand an impossible proof.

2. Gaslight with remarks about vast spy networks, mind control and illuminatis.

3. Distract with an irrelevant, but true story.

Like I said, you're defending TikTok & CCP with surprising passion and competence.

[kristopolous]

It's not impossible.

I literally gave two examples along with a giant book of where such proof is.

Yes, true stories, that's what I'm asking for. Not fantastic tales inspired from the protocols of the elders of Zion.

Something like the Panama papers or Epstein or the VW emission scandal. There's more examples

[def_true_false]

Proof of having a capability and proof of using said capability is not the same thing. Your line of reasoning is no different from people who bitch about security patches costing performance when there is no evidence of exploits in the wild.

[telotortium]

At this point, I would even settle for circumstantial evidence. Just no "it might happen".