[jameshart]

It’s not ‘more complexity’ than a Markov chain - it essentially is a Markov chain, just looking at a really deep sequence of preceding tokens to decide the probabilities for what comes next.

And it’s not just looking that up in a state machine, it’s ‘calculating’ it based on weights.

But in terms of ‘take sequence of input tokens; use them to decide probable next token’, it’s functionally indistinguishable from a Markov chain.

[ravi-delia]

I look at deep sequences of tokens and predict what comes next- can you milk me? Once you've broadened "basically a markov chain" to "any function from a sequence of tokens to a probability distribution of tokens" there's a lot of explanatory power lost. If you had to characterize the difference between brute force mappings based on pure frequencies and model which selectively calculates probabilities based on underlying structure, wouldn't you say the latter had more complexity?

You don't have to believe the hype, but if you think you can get GPT performance out of anything remotely resembling a markov chain, I encourage you to try.

[jameshart]

There's nothing about Markov chains that says the model has to be based on brute calculation from previously observed frequencies. The point is that the exact behavior of these LLMs could also be modeled as a Markov chain with a sufficiently massive state machine.

Obviously that's impractical and not how LLMs actually work - they derive the transition probabilities for a state from the input, rather than having it pre-baked - but I think from the point of view of saying 'these are more sophisticated than a Markov chain', actually strictly speaking they aren't - they are in fact a lossy compression of a Markov model.

[krackers]

But it seems like the attention mechanism fundamentally isn't markov-like in that at a given position it can pool information from all other positions. So as in the simplest case when trained on masked-language modeling, the prediction of the mask in "Capital of [MASK] is Paris" can depend bidirectionally on all surrounding context. While I guess it's true that in the case where the mask is at the end (for next-token completion), you could consider this as a markov model with each state being the max attention window (2048 tokens I think?), but that's like saying all real-world computers are FSMs: it's technically true, but this isn't the best model to use for actually understanding its behavior.

Since for most inputs that are smaller than the max token length you never actually end up using the markov-ness, calling it a markov model seems like it's just in a way saying it's a function that provides a probability distribution for the next token given the previous tokens. Which just pushes the question back onto how that function is defined.

[larsejonasson]

Could you not use two Markov chains for masked language modeling? One working from the beginning until [MASK] and one working backwards from the end until [MASK]. And then set [MASK] to the average of both chains. If a direct average cannot be found, it is assumed to be a multi-word-expression and words are generated from the two chains until they match.

[krackers]

That seems closer to a BiLSTM?