[mgrthrow]

This is the classic answer to the classic question about anarchy:

"who will do the unpleasant, demeaning work?"

"We only think it's unpleasant because we make it unpleasant. We can have clean, well lit factories. We just have to prioritize making that work more pleasant."

[maerF0x0]

Also perhaps the least dignified work should be the highest paid? Unfortunately America has a sort of wealth cult going on that we dignify (and deify) those who are already wealthy.

[kaesar14]

The unfortunate reality is because these jobs are plentiful and easy to do (NOT saying they aren’t demanding, just that they don’t require advanced training) it incentivizes a race to the bottom in terms of wages - but we should do better as a society in guaranteeing high working standards and wages through regulation instead.

[xboxnolifes]

Plentiful and easy to do means nothing in the face of sufficiently low supply of workers. If there isn't a low supply of workers, then why is there a quote given about people turning down work?

[lesam]

If there was an alternative in the form of a guaranteed not-terrible job at minimum wage, wouldn’t that necessarily raise wages (or maybe working conditions) for currently terrible jobs?

Giving people a real choice seems easier than regulating every possible kind of job.

[lotsofpulp]

Why even bother with a guaranteed not terrible job? Seems simpler to go with universal basic income than wasting resources on uneconomic jobs.

[andrepd]

There is a problem right with the motion of "uneconomic". If fixing basic infrastructure or growing food is unprofitable, but building sportscars or yachts is not... that seems to indicate a problem with the economic system of allocation of resources.

[lotsofpulp]

If society thinks there are too many sports cars or yachts, then it can increase marginal wealth/income/property/sales taxes. And if society thinks there is insufficient food or infrastructure, then it can pay people to make food and build infrastructure. Either way, if both are competing for the same supply of labor, only the highest bidder will get it.

[8note]

Given the jobs are plentiful, isn't that an incentive to raise the wages? If you actually want somebody at your horrible job, you have to incentivize them to do yours and not somebody else's

[andrepd]

Or, precisely, through programs like this. What Marx called the "reserve army of labour" ensures that these jobs will remain poorly paid.

[burritas]

How do we make cleaning septic tanks more enjoyable?

[bombcar]

By making it it well and entertaining.

There are entire YouTube channels dedicated to it. Septic sucking is a function of capital costs not labor costs.

[wizofaus]

Why's there a need to? If it's highly unpleasant and there's a shortage of people willing to do it then surely it's a perfect opportunity for the development of self-cleaning tanks... As it is most of the truly unpleasant jobs of previous centuries don't exist anymore - if someone had found a way to make gong farming pleasant (look it up!) then flushing toilets and town sewerage systems might never have been invented...

[loa_in_]

By paying enough

[rqtwteye]

Pay more. Design the tank and the equipment so it's not a dirty job. All doable if you are willing to spend some money.

[guerrilla]

By paying a lot more.

[burritas]

Cheaper to hire a felon or immigrant. I'm not saying I agree with this arrangement.

[guerrilla]

Which is why nobody should be in such a weak position. It's exploitation pure and simple.

[burritas]

I don't disagree that it's exploitation, but I think you obscure a very complex problem with "nobody should be in such a weak position".

I'm not sure any economic or legal arrangement could do away with weak positions like that entirely.

[arglebargle123]

UBI would go a long way towards pulling the very poor up out of the cycle of "I'll take whichever bad choice is least bad right now because I'm desperate."

[Zigurd]

Re a very complex problem with "nobody should be in such a weak position".

It is only complex if avoiding questions about the value of human dignity, and the inability of laissez faire capitalism to deliver that, need to be avoided.

[guerrilla]

I think libertarian socialism does exactly that but in this case what's being argued for is JG (and UBI) which would help empower many, so we shouldn't be arguing against those things (not saying you are.)

[SoftTalker]

Around here, the septic tank cleaners tend to be owner-operators. They own their tank truck and cleaning business, and they make decent money.

[Retric]

Robots and or increased pay.