[patothon]

I'm not sure why you think I've done a bad job implementing these methodologies.

I've actually done a GREAT job. These teams shipped.

But I realized that they didn't ship because of the actual methodologies but the core set of values we implemented as a team.

ergo, these methodologies are a sham.

[jdlshore]

My statement wasn't actually directed at you—I don't know you! Sorry it sounded like a criticism.

I was responding to @scott_w saying that process change not taking root isn't the consultant's fault, because companies don't want to pay for good process change. I disagree: I think it's the consultants job to be clear about what's needed to succeed, and not work for companies that don't want to pay for good work.

Regarding methodologies, I agree that successful teams internalize the principles behind their methods and leave the by-the-book methodologies behind. I think you're being overly cynical, though. Beginners need a concrete place to start. It's like saying cookbooks are a sham because expert chefs don't need them.

[scott_w]

I didn’t specifically apportion blame. I just said I don’t blame the consultant in the case where it doesn’t succeed due to lack of investment. Yes, you can say consultants should enforce that but many don’t. I can’t say I blame them when they need to pay the bills and there’s a paying customer.

[patothon]

fair point about needing the beginners for a place to start.

The turnover issue we're seeing in the industry definitely doesn't help with seniors leading the way. which ends up being a problem top to bottom

[IOT_Apprentice]

How would you have established the core set of values otherwise? Sometimes teams click, & sometimes an egomaniac inside a team can destroy the product—and end the team. I’ve seen it.

What agile/scrum was supposed to do was kill waterfall, and provide more transparency in how a project it product was actually proceeding with demonstrations of execution or lack thereof.

[Centigonal]

you should write that blog post about that core set of values. I think a lot of people have trouble recognizing success when it's not tied to a named concept, brand, or methodology.