[ajsnigrutin]

Considering the current geopolitical situation, as someone living in the EU, it's safer for me to have my data/chats leaked to the russians than to facebook (whatsapp) or google (whatever their chat app of the day is named now). I'm pretty sure our law inforcement doesn't have a direct access to private telegram data.

[WmWsjA6B29B4nfk]

How about leaking your data to both Russians and Western LEA? Telegram is run by an UK LLC.

[lxgr]

This seems like a false dichotomy: The choice isn’t "leak my data to western or the Russian government".

End-to-end encrypted (by default and for all chats) messengers exist, but Telegram simply isn‘t one of them.

[selfhoster11]

Can you point to the Git repo for WhatsApp, or iMessage, or Facebook Messenger? I sure can't, and don't trust any claims of backdoor-free E2E messaging until I see that.

Other than Signal, Telegram is one of the very few messengers that happens to be both E2E capable in some way, open source, and sufficiently heard of that people won't give you weird looks when you suggest downloading the app.

[lxgr]

No objection to Signal, but mentioning that in the same breath as Telegram hurts my head.

Telegram is not end-to-end encrypted in any practical scenario (you can‘t use it on multiple devices, for example), their end-to-end encryption uses some ridiculous/scary homebrew cryptography ("with the power of 5 math PhDs and a bug bounty worth millions!!!"), and being open source doesn‘t help a bit if the service provider just gets everything in plaintext anyway by default.

[antisocialist]

Yes, it's got critical mass.

I haven't looked at Telegram's blockchain thing yet, but the non-blockchain version is not very private (and the same applies to Signal).

xx Messenger (https://elixxir.io/; source https://git.xx.network/elixxir/) has very solid encryption, metadata protection and decentralized gateways. But it's less polished, blockchain-based, and has few users.

People complain about the use of blockchain in messengers, but they offer no solutions on how to address app sustainability or eliminate metadata centralization, censorship, or risk of having your data handed to the government by the organization running the network. We'll see how sustainable your centralized donation-ware is.

Btw somebody mentioned "only" 1:1 encrypted chats: who does it better?

xx Messenger can do group chats but you can't add people to a chat after the group has been created.

[lxgr]

> People complain about the use of blockchain in messengers, but they offer no solutions on how to address app sustainability

What are you missing on Signal? The ability to sign up without a phone number would indeed be great, but other than that, they seem to be collecting effectively nothing.

> People complain about the use of blockchain in messengers, but they offer no solutions on how to address app sustainability

If this is about funding, just make it paid/freemium! Effectively that's the same thing as launching an own token or even blockchain, just without all the complexity of launching and sustainably managing what might easily become a pyramid or Ponzi scheme and/or a security in scope of regulations.

> Btw somebody mentioned "only" 1:1 encrypted chats: who does it better?

Signal, and everything based on it (e.g. WhatsApp), Matrix, and Threema immediately come to mind, and they all don't have this weakness:

> but you can't add people to a chat after the group has been created.

[tapoxi]

Well there you go, use Signal. Telegram only has opt-in secret chats and they only work 1:1.

I'm not willing to have all of my personal communication sitting in plaintext controlled by an unprofitable company founded by Russians and located in the UAE. Even if they're not compromised, that's an incredible target for a state actor.

[miohtama]

We can also use WeChat and TikTok and leak to the Chinese government :)