Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by Anunayj 1283 days ago
I am a little confused as to why a blockchain was necessary here? Since Telegram is a centralized platform, couldn't they just roll their own "usernames" which they already do.
6 comments

Honestly. Telegram is a superb chat client, but there’s no reason for this blockchain nonsense. Let users choose a username and password like services have been doing for decades.
How is its interface so sleek? It’s better than Apple’s own apps.
Sleek, fast, intuitive, and seamless across devices. From a software standpoint it’s incredible, compared to something like Discord which takes longer to launch than it takes my PC to power on and get to the desktop.
Discord is a bloated UI nightmare. There are so many awkward choices. Most annoying is that the server list is icons only. There are many servers with similar icons. Just allow me to have actual text there.
Discord straight up doesn't work on the web for me anymore. The enter key doesn't trigger anything, so I can't search or write anything. It's the most obnoxious bug I've ever witnessed.
None of these bloated apps work on the web very well anymore on Firefox I've found, even Twitter and Instagram. Especially true if you have even minor privacy settings/adblock toggled on in your browser.

I think sites like Discord just assume you'll install the app and that browser users are just boomers or the 0.1% who are more security+privacy oriented.

On iOS it’s written using a fork of Texture, formerly AsyncDisplayKit. In my experience, Texture outperforms UIKit’s auto layout and rich text widgets significantly.

https://github.com/TextureGroup/Texture

Desktop is written in QT I believe which I enjoy using very much.
Durov has been pushing a lot of blockchain nonsense over his app. I really like Telegram as a chat app, but his stunts are making me wonder whether it's still a good idea to depend so much on it.
They need to monetize. Blockchain is one way to capture value (unfortunately, the hype train has long left the station). Given Telegram's functionality (file sharing, large groups in particular), it is likely the costs are way too high.
They could just literally charge the $16 or roughly whatever it is upfront. It means nothing for them to be in a blockchain except waste of resources (ironically increasing their costs...)
> They could just literally charge the $16 or roughly whatever it is upfront. It means nothing for them to be in a blockchain except waste of resources (ironically increasing their costs...)

I don't think so. When you own a lot of crypto, and have lots of real dollars (Pavel has lots of real dollars!), you can manipulate price a little bit.

In 2019/2020 Telegram had to give investors all their money back, and the new TON project started without venture capital with a value of 0$. It's now 1.84$.

If their market makers are sophisticated enough, they will create enough liquidity grabs to sell telegram's TON bags over time for a nice sum.

I think they are aiming for creating a market + "eco system" similar to ETH.

"They need to monetize."

Sigh.

Charge users directly or GTFO.

Seriously. If the product is "very secure messaging," then come right out and say "very secure messaging costs money, pay up."

Doing anything -- ANYTHING else lets me know they're not serious about the mission.

But they do charge users directly: https://telegram.org/faq_premium?setln=en

It's a typical freemium model. I'd subscribe if I were certain that my money won't be going to Russia.

Are you implying Telegram is being run by the Russian government?
That's not the only way money can end up in Russia. Having employees there is a simple one.
https://fragment.com/numbers -> "Oops. This service is not available in the United States."

Not a great way to monetize in one of the larger markets.

Curiously, Durov didn't mention Fragment/blockchain initiatives in his post about Telegram's monetization strategy[1].

[1] https://t.me/durov/203

I've been pushing people to use Element (matrix) rather than Telegram whenever possible but Telegram has that critical mass and beats Element's usability by a mile.
i wish i had a ton of cash to dump into element/matrix development
If anyone reading this has a ton of cash to dump into element/matrix development, please head over to funding@matrix.org immediately (cf https://matrix.org/blog/2022/12/01/funding-matrix-via-the-ma...)
Or maybe into developing a new Matrix client from scratch.

The networking libraries may be fine. The UI could be completely rebuilt.

(Sadly, I don't have a ton of cash, or even a ton of time, to dedicate to such things.)

fwiw we are developing a new Matrix client from scratch at Element, currently codenamed Element X: https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special.... It’s built to outperform telegram :)
To extend your wish: i wish i had a ton of cash to dump into development of matrix's 3 top most client apps (including Element)...to diversify things, and to ensure they compete with each other for improved UX...and of course to speed towards a more p2p world (at least p2p for messaging). ;-)
I still can't forget about Telegram Passport [1, 1a].

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17618053

Because there's only one way to turn up the heat on the crypto hellscape: more blockchain.

Telegram launched a silly username auction that I won't link here. It essentially turns usernames into NFTs.

> Telegram launched a silly username auction that I won't link here. It essentially turns usernames into NFTs.

They need to make money somehow? Not really an issue for users who don't care about unique usernames.

Most of us simply charge fees for stuff to make money. I haven't had to create a bespoke distributed ledger or fabricate a currency to charge fees yet, and don't expect to.
There's already Telegram Premium and ads in channels.
Very sad. I loved the fact I could change my username whenever I wanted. Ideally I would want no username as well as no phone at all, just a random numeric ID like ICQ had.

I really hate being forced to invent a nickname and be hard-glued to it forever.

You can still change your username whenever you want. But the coolest ones are taken and being sold on the market.

Similar to how ICQ low digits used to be sold.

Why have a numeric ID at all? Just have a ton of private keys or nothing at all so no one can track you across any messages and anything you write.
No, absolutely no. Private keys as a form of identity are flawed because they can't be recovered if lost and can't be revoked if leaked. In the real world, as opposed to crypto dreams, both these capabilities are not "nice to have", they are hard requirements. People lose their passwords — something they can remember — all the damn time, yet you're suggesting to use something that has to be stored as a file, but must be kept secret but at the same time stored reliably. And it's not just for authentication, it's the identity itself.

Private keys as a form of identity can't possibly work in the real world.

And how pray tell will you authenticate with this numeric user id or username in the system? Is it like social security numbers where everyone just lets you input anything?
I have no idea how SSNs work as I'm not from the US. Usually you'd have a password. The username is for identity, the password is for authentication, possibly combined with additional factors.
You have to spell your ID to people so they can contact you anyway and a number is the easiest to spell aloud when communicating to people from different countries because everybody (every language) calls the same letters a different way and almost nobody cares to study proper letter names as this is the most useless knowledge about a language otherwise.
No need to spell it

Send a QR code or a link that can be used only once.

Why have an identifier that any number of people can use to contact you?

> Send a QR code or a link that can be used only once.

I most often have to spell my contact details in a voice phone call because my primary job is to communicate to live people all over the world, not to code. Believe it or not but people actually call my office desk phone regularly (although I always prefer email if possible). Even in the IT sector (let alone administrative tasks, healthcare, utilities, etc), whenever you need a rack in a datacenter, new servers or whatever you often are meant to submit your phone number on their website and then they call you. Some very big Internet and datacenter operators don't advertise any ways to contact them other than by phone, some would publish an email or a contact form but ignore you until you call them.

> Why have an identifier that any number of people can use to contact you?

The same as the above.

Not just that. Isn't disposable names a prerequisite for real security?
I don't use Telegram for anything that requires "real security", and advise against doing so. I assume that 100% of what I say in Telegram would be accessible to whatever authorities there are. I only assume that low-skill script kiddies won't be able to read my encrypted chats. I use Telegram the way I would use Facebook, or post-it notes in an office coffee point: with no expectation of real privacy.

It still covers a lot of mundane communication cases.

> Telegram launched a silly username auction that I won't link here.

No worries, I'll do it for you: https://fragment.com

Source: https://www.telegram.org/blog/topics-in-groups-collectible-u...

IIRC, they also took these popular usernames (since they were already claimed) without the owners' permission.
Clicking the link to that blockchain service informs you that it is "Not Available in the U.S." Some blockchain.

To answer your question - the point of a blockchain would be a universal and uncensorable key store the Telegram client can point back towards. The fact that Telegram is centralized is less important when messages are encrypted. It would still in theory offer a way to bootstrap connections with people that is less vulnerable to censorship than relying on a central server, but I don't know and won't speculate more on the details of the specific blockchain they are using.

They do so, you can choose almost any free username out there. Telegram wants to popularize its side blockchain project called TON (which could make an ICO, due to SEC limitations). So they decided to utilize it by making an auction for l33t usernames. Today they launched virtual sim service on the same platform (https://fragment.com/numbers), so anyone can buy virtual number and create a Telegram account.
We should just stop calling it a "blockchain" and give it a more realistic name.

Telegram, now with integrated scamweb™!