[RHSeeger]

They said that many of their coworkers that had children seem like shells of their former selves. Not all of them, and not by definition.

You are saying that anyone that doesn't have children automatically empty and sad.

- One of the statements is "in the people I've seen do x, an outcome of y seems common".

- The other is "in any person that does x, y is true"

Those are not the same thing.

[DonHopkins]

Including his own children being empty and sad if they don't deliver him grandchildren. That's just terrible parenting, to be so judgemental and demeaning of your own children.

Edit:

Then address my question instead of ignoring it. Why by your own judgemental attitude would your own children be any less empty and sad than anyone else if they chose not to reproduce themselves? And how are you not being a bad judgemental parent with that attitude? Don't have kids if you're not willing to let them make their own decisions.

[rapsey]

Nice straw man you have built here.

I did not answer your question because it is absurd. There is a difference between having an opinion and forcing that opinion on others. My children are their own people and they are allowed to disagree and I will not hold it against them. Because I love them more than they can understand until they have children themselves. I however hope they will be confident and flexible in their opinions and change them if they prove a poor fit to reality and not resort to logical fallacies or grudges.

[RHSeeger]

I'm not sure "I respect your decision to have a sad and empty life" is as wonderful a parenting statement as you seem to think it is.

[DonHopkins]

You didn't answer my questions because they made my point and you don't want to follow what you said through to its logical conclusions and ultimate consequences.

It's not my questions that are absurd, it's your condescending attitude and statements, and I specifically asked you those questions to point out the absurdity of what you said, and by refusing to answer you proved my point.

Your demeaning judgements could apply just as much to the lack of value and sadness and emptiness of your own children's lives if they decide not to breed as they do against everyone else, which is my point that you're unable to acknowledge because you delusionally believe your own children are somehow magically different than everyone else in the universe, and you unfairly exempt them from your harsh degrading criticism of other people.

They're not, and your condescending attitude applies as much to your own children as to anyone else.

It's judgemental condescending parents like you who kick their kids out onto the streets because they're disappointed in them and believe they're sad and worthless for not wanting to breed when they find out they're gay or lesbian, so their kids don't trust them, are afraid to come out to them, hide their true feelings from their own parents, and often commit suicide, because they understand how harsh and judgemental their parents are, from all the condescending hateful things they say about other people all their lives.

You only judge that other people's lives are sad and empty for not breeding because they're not your children, so you have a double standard, and don't want to admit that. But kids can see through that, and know you'll ultimately judge them just as harshly too.

Part of being a good parent is being mature enough to not think and speak in such a childish nasty way, and to not be so condescending and demeaning.

[rapsey]

Ad hominem

[DonHopkins]

At least I'm not making ad hominem attacks against my own children and everyone else who choses not to reproduce themselves, like you did FIRST.

I'm merely pointing out that your own original ad hominem attacks could also apply just as well to your own children, which you don't want to admit.

And that you could drive your children to suicide with that kind of disrespectful attitude, judging your own children's lives as empty and sad, devoid of happiness, and incapable of truly experiencing love, just because they didn't deliver you grandchildren.

Are you really that homophobic and paternalistic, or do you more generally hate and demean and devalue the lives and love of everyone who doesn't breed "equally"?

So be careful, stop being so judgemental and demeaning, and try to be a better parent!

And stop complaining about ad hominem attacks, when you're the one who threw the first stone at the most number of people, possibly including your own children.

[rapsey]

> You are saying that anyone that doesn't have children automatically empty and sad.

No I am saying that is what they seem to me. Just like people with children are shells of their former selves to him. You are splitting hairs and putting words in my mouth to make an obvious point. In the end you are just proving me right that one can not express any kind of negative about being childless without having people jump down their throats.

[DonHopkins]

You just don't like it when somebody points out that your own ad hominem attacks could just as well apply to your own children. You threw the first stone, without considering that you could be attacking your very own children too, and now you're mad at me for pointing that out. I'm not the one attacking your children, I'm just pointing out that you are, which is terrible parenting.