[skorpeon87]

> Wild to see the Seattle Chamber acting like he is making things better in Downtown when 2 blocks down the hill from City Hall 7-Eleven closed up shop due to all the tweakers.

This apparent contradiction is easy to explain.

Forcing people into rehab is considered inhumane. Tweakers are deemed to be victims of society, and therefore the 'correct' solution is to have more tolerance for tweakers. More tweakers out on the street is evidence that the tweakers feel tolerated, which must mean that it's working.

This won't change until you vote out the local politicians who believe these premises: that forcing people into rehab is inhumane. That tweakers are victims of society's intolerance, and that tweakers wouldn't be a problem if we had more tolerance for them.

[simfree]

You have me laughing my ass off right now. I know one person who is in involuntary detox currently (then onto court ordered rehab). The King County Municipal Court is dishing these out left and right, but that still doesn't prevent relapse 6 months after getting out of rehab.

Then we get all the suburbs dumping their druggies in Pioneer Square and Chinatown. It's a neverending pipeline of addicts the Eastside and south end is dumping on us.

We need to start tracking all non-city LEOs entering Seattle and turn them around if they are giving courtesy rides. Called 911 on one from Bothell yesterday and started filming the occupant and cop. They raced off right quick but I still filed a complaint with Bothell PD.

[seanmcdirmid]

The east side simply enforces it laws. Ya, they don’t go anywhere in the King County Justice system, but the harassment of getting arrested in Bellevue for doing drugs in public is enough to push them into Seattle where that would simply never occur.

[simfree]

The Eastside dumps it's problems elsewhere, the current homeless situation and lack of facilities east of Seattle is but one example.

Everett has made a huge effort with their rehabilitation and detox programs, but they have the same shitty situation of being the dumping ground for Snohomish County.

[seanmcdirmid]

There are facilities in Bellevue (east gate) and they do contribute money to the regional shelter fund. But generally the really bad cases will go wherever they are best tolerated (like camping, smoking fentanyl on the bus, shoplifting whatever from Fred Meyer while the cops just watch). So Everett, Seattle, and much of south king county, Tacoma, etc..

They are nowhere near immobile, while metro and sound transit doesn’t even try to collect fares anymore. Bellevue doesn’t need to transport anyone to Seattle, they just send out 5 officers 5 minutes after someone lays down on a park bench. Surely Mill Creek does the same forcing people to Everett. (Lynwood probably has a problem just as bad as Everett)

[skorpeon87]

> The King County Municipal Court is dishing these out left and right,

Hardly, the number of tweakers they throw into rehab is nothing compared to the number of tweakers on the streets. A small percent of tweakers being thrown into rehab isn't going to solve the problem if most of them aren't thrown into rehab.

> suburbs dumping

Local politicians always love to blame others. It's never their fault, of course, and the blame casting always comes with fantasy solutions that will never be implemented, like your idea to "track all non-city LEOs". And each year the problem gets worse. The city is filled with people who think as you do, elect ineffectual politicians who think as you do, and so the city gets what it deserves.

[sershe]

(As someone, unfortunately, living in Seattle) Why wouldn't they, really? I mean, there's a reason the problem is not symmetrical - Seattle PD could do the same with Bothell to balance it out and make it a MAD type of thing, but they don't - why not?

I think willfully stupid people should suffer the consequences of their willful stupidity. It's a bummer I cannot move away from them right now, but I do see how this is totally fair to the stupid people.

[tomcam]

> Then we get all the suburbs dumping their druggies in Pioneer Square and Chinatown. I

How is that happening?

[seanmcdirmid]

Metro or Sound Transit mostly. The east side makes itself inhospitable to porch pirating and public drug use/selling, so the problems wind up in Seattle where the police do much less in those areas.

[Akronymus]

So, how is it easr sides fault? Because the comments seem to be implying it to be.

[seanmcdirmid]

I’m a fan of the way the east side does things, none of their voters will fault the police for being too strict on enforcement of quality of life issues. But Seattle voters are different, so this is what we get. It’s neither’s fault, people will just go where they can live life the easiest, do you blame them?

[idiotsecant]

Yes, that famously effective policy of involuntary rehab.

Rehab isn't magic - it requires you to really, really, really not want to use drugs anymore.

[XorNot]

Which it's worth noting also requires incentives in your life to actually improve it. Kicking someone out of rehab when they're cured with no job prospects, no support network and no home has rather predictable results.

[Rimintil]

Incentives aren’t effective. It requires a personal want to get off of drugs.

But you’re right, these individuals certainly are getting disincentives.

[tremon]

I think the GP was saying that incentives are a prerequisite for that personal want, not that they're sufficient to prevent relapse.

[PathOfEclipse]

> Tweakers are deemed to be victims of society, and therefore the 'correct' solution is to have more tolerance for tweakers.

You should strongly consider that these suppositions are fundamentally wrong. I suggest you read Sanfransicko, written by a longtime progressive democrat activist who had the vanishingly rare intellectual honesty to examine in hindsight the results of the drug and homeless policies he himself fought for. He found that they were disastrous!

[PathOfEclipse]

I realize I was wrong in not reading parent's post all the way through but I can't delete my comment due to hacker News' draconian delete policy.

[wolverine876]

> Forcing people into rehab is considered inhumane.

How is it otherwise? Or do we just forget other people's freedom when they do things you don't like?

> Tweakers are deemed to be victims of society, and therefore the 'correct' solution is to have more tolerance for tweakers. More tweakers out on the street is evidence that the tweakers feel tolerated, which must mean that it's working.

Instead of strawpeople and rants, how about trying to find solutions that help everyone?

[edgyquant]

You can’t help everyone and it’s unfair to expect those living normal lives to suffer because drug addicts exist.

[wolverine876]

> You can’t help everyone

So what? Do we do nothing at all in life, because it cannot be done perfectly? And I'm not sure you are correct; we probably could help at least the vast majority. Why aren't we? Why stand around debating it. Let's act!

> it’s unfair to expect those living normal lives to suffer because drug addicts exist.

It's life, it's the world you are born into - none other ever has existed. Let's raise ourselves up, and especially abandon the absurd trend - is there a more vicious and dangerous one? - of lacking empathy. I understand disruption; it's a tool; what are we trying to accomplish by eliminating empathy?

You and I need empathy too; we give it, in great volume, and maybe in life we get a little back. We live in the real world, not on an island, and this is very much part of the world. We're expected to do these things - it's necessary, basic life and responsibility, along with being humane and responsible. You weren't born into a pain-free, suffering-free world. Civilization, society, your community runs on these efforts, whether you realize it or not - if not, you are sitting back while others do the hard work. And you cause your share too (including trying to take away others' freedom and dignity) and so do I. These are vulnerable people; they need help and support; they might not be nice, and God knows who is deserving. I'm not throwing any stones.

[humanizersequel]

>do we just forget other people's freedom when they do things you don't like

Yes, we do this all the time.