[sgu999]

> Apple and many westerners never understand the risk and the ethics implication of doing business in China.

Apple industrial partners are all asians. Samsung and the like don't do any better regarding ethics. Not sure why the divide with the "ignorant west" is necessary in your argument.

Of course people at Apple understand the risk, and it is taken into account to generate as much profit as possible.

[ekianjo]

lets not compare South Korea and China please...

[sgu999]

I was comparing Apple to Samsung. But OK.

[mschuster91]

> Apple industrial partners are all asians. Samsung and the like don't do any better regarding ethics.

You can rightfully complain about labor practices in other Asian countries, but forced labor from concentration camps is a uniquely Chinese atrocity.

[iglio]

Just for completeness, the US has its own flavor of issues here in its prison system.

Just 23¢ to $1.15 is the typical hourly pay [1], and work is not always voluntary and up to the same employee protection/safety standards as true employment [2].

Labour sourced from the incarcerated creates problematic incentives in law enforcement.

[1] https://www.bop.gov/inmates/custody_and_care/unicor_about.js...

[2] https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/2022...

[enkid]

This is true, and one of the great tragedies of modern US society, but doesn't lessen the immorality of what China is doing.

[philwelch]

If someone actually commits a serious felony—murder, rape, car theft, aggravated assault—I think they should be sentenced to forced labor.

[psd1]

Forced labour means profit for someone. That is far too close to slavery to avoid major value clash, so it will hide itself to present a respectable face. Corruption is inevitable. You'll end up with judges sentencing children for profit. Off to the new world in fetters. As the setting for a novel, I'm convinced.

[luckylion]

And one that's usually not done by Apple or Samsung, but by contract-manufacturers like Foxconn. Both Apple and Samsung use Foxconn. The "iphone factories" aren't Apple-factories, they're Foxconn factories which currently produce iphones but will produce Samsung galaxy phones if iphone production moves.

It's a "companies use Chinese as-close-to-slave-labor-as-you-can-get-without-being-called-out-labor" thing, not a "naive Western company finds out how things work in China" thing.

[sgu999]

It appears I worded my argument wrongly. I am not comparing asian countries. I am only stating that the ones directly in charge of forced labor in this case are asian companies (Foxcon to start with). And that the ones giving orders are interchangeably asian or "westerner" companies (Samsung and Apple being two examples).

My point was that when it comes to profit and exploitation of workers, dividing in between "nice asians" and "mean westerners" is completely wrong.

[flandish]

> uniquely Chinese

No. It’s not. See also: the US prison labor system.

[Markoff]

I think you should read up more in Asia if you think slave labor is unique to China, you can start with Thai fishing industry.

Btw not that it would be case with Apple, these are Taiwanese companies with factories in China, so maybe instead blaming China blame the Taiwan, but I understand it's not trendy.

Oh and let's not forget "democratic" Vietnam with communist gov censoring internet and imprisoning people for opinions, where did I see that? And don't get me started on biggest "democracy" where you still have caste system which is mutually exclusive with democracy. Lived in China and visited all these for extended periods and it's very naive to think Vietnam or India are some step ups conscience wise.

[FabHK]

Or about the people forced to run Bitcoin scams in Sihanoukville, Cambodia.

[Markoff]

I guess that would still be improvement from infamous Chicken farm.

[Qtips87]

There is a general lawlessness in India the 'biggest democracy' but aside from that large swathes of area in India is under a law that gives the state the power to imprison or kill anyone with impunity. No due process, no question asked. Anyone can be jailed or be killed by the state if the state deemed the person a security threat for whatever reason. The law is called AFSPA (Armed Force Special Power Act) and is imposed in Kashmir and the northeast. It is a brutal law that no civilized country should have.