[Ygg2]

> There's already lots of information about the details of what the fast tracking meant.

I just read this: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pfizer-vaccine-tra...

> The same presentation slide describes “Other benefits likely uncertain at approval and only clearer after the vaccine is used” to include the vaccine’s “long term protection,” “prevention of infection (asymptomatic cases),” and “prevention of virus transmission in the community - needs specific studies post-approval necessary to show.”

This implies they only checked it reduces symptoms in affected. Transmission prevention and long term immunity would be tested at later point.

So what was then the point of getting everyone vaccinated? Weren't vaccines supposed to contain its spread?

When I got vaccinated for various diseases, it gave long term immunity, not 4 doses over months to lessen the symptoms.

[viraptor]

> When I got vaccinated for various diseases, it gave long term immunity, not 4 doses over months to lessen the symptoms.

Please double check yours. There's a few common vaccines that people assume are "life long" but actually have a recommendation for boosters when you're an adult.

But yeah, in general the length of immunity differs, some vaccines work forever, some not. It's a limitation of what we can produce.

> So what was then the point of getting everyone vaccinated?

Multiple reasons. Prevent many deaths, lower symptoms, make recover easier, lower emergency departments load, lower transmission, etc. None of those were going to be perfect or work independently of people's behaviours.

[wolrah]

> When I got vaccinated for various diseases, it gave long term immunity, not 4 doses over months to lessen the symptoms.

Which works for some diseases. Others are only effective for shorter periods of time and/or against specific variants. The flu vaccine should be a familiar example to most people, needing periodic refreshers that are most effective against certain variants and not others.

It's also worth noting that the diseases that are treated as a "one and done" are generally those where you're unlikely to be exposed in day to day life for a variety of reasons.

[tekknik]

The flu vaccine and mRNA vaccines are very different. One is much more proven than the other. How do you reconcile the heart issues some had?

[panopticon]

The risk of myocarditis is substantially higher in COVID infections than COVID vaccinations.

Yes, it's unfortunate that the vaccine has side effects. But if you're seriously concerned about the risk of heart problems the vaccine is the safer bet.

[tekknik]

See I wasn’t concerned at all, until I got the vaccine and started having minor chest pains immediately after. Now I’m definitely concerned but the fact remains, my heart may have been damaged from a rushed vaccine that was forced on me. All most have to offer is “yea there’s some side effects”

[viraptor]

Or from stress of that day, or from asymptomatic covid you didn't realise you had, or from unrelated heart issues you didn't realise you had, or from...

The question is only: did you want higher or lower chances of survival? Cherry picking a situating you think you may have experienced and worrying about it is not useful. Attribution is hard. In single cases close to impossible.

[tekknik]

> Or from stress of that day, or from asymptomatic covid you didn't realise you had, or from unrelated heart issues you didn't realise you had, or from...

The day I had issues I was camping. Given the testing I certainly didn’t have COVID unless the tests are wrong. No unrelated heart issues prior to this, EKGs everything prior showed normal.

I’d rather not have heart issues to help someone else feel safe. And if my chances are lower, then how come after taking the first dose and having issues, then ceasing further doses at my Drs request, how come I never got it? You see you can isolate yourself and invalidate the need for increased survival rates. Bonus, you don’t have heart issues either!

Really all this shows me is its “every man for themselves”. All anybody cares about is if they survive or if they get a hospital bed if needed. And they’ll force, or attempt to force, others to do things to give them an extra level of safety. Because of this, you’ve created a “new vaccine” antivaxer

[etchalon]

Every vaccine has side effects in a limited number of people.

Even the flu vaccine has known potential side effects

[tekknik]

Yes but in general we don’t force the flu vaccine. Reports came out it cause heart issues and the guidance didn’t even change for the affected age group.

[etchalon]

We don’t “force” any vaccine.

And guidance hasn’t changed because the benefits still outweighed the risks, though more studies are warranted and are in process in light of updated vaccines and mutating variants.

[tekknik]

We actually force a few, and there certainly was an attempt for COVID. How many people lost their jobs for not taking the shot? Why didn’t we wait until the studies could be complete? Isolate until then?

[lern_too_spel]

The point was to reduce hospitalizations, which was a measured outcome. You can't let everyone get infected if the hospitals won't be able to handle it.

The flu vaccine also does not grant long term immunity, but it has the same utility for public health.

[tekknik]

That was the point of isolation, to control the spread of the virus to not impact our hospitals. Vaccinations were first meant to eradicate, then when that didn’t happen it was to reduce transmission, then when that didn’t work it was to reduce the symptoms (which still doesn’t work).

[lern_too_spel]

The measured outcomes in the initial vaccine trials were over 90% reduction in hospitalizations and deaths. That is what was known for sure at the time vaccines were rolled out. A reduction in transmission would have been a nice additional benefit, but the trials were not set up to measure if it had happened.

Since you got such a basic fact wrong, you might consider what else you've misunderstood and why. Then you can take steps to correct it.

[meetingthrower]

Unbelievable huge win for humanity! And all that glory could have and should have been worn by the Trump administration. 90% reduction in deaths!!! Amazing! What a collosal stupid species we humans are to complain about this result.

[tekknik]

Who’s complaining about the result? I’m specifically complaining about the forced vaccination. I’m a big boy and can isolate myself to avoid illness. Why force it on me?

[lern_too_spel]

If you were isolated, who was there to force vaccination on you? The point of society is that if you live with other people, you get to benefit from hospitals and schools, but you must also submit to the rules of society to let you access those benefits, including vaccination to not overrun the hospitals and taxes to fund the schools. If you live by yourself, nobody is going to bother you, but you don't get the benefits either.

[jacobolus]

> When I got vaccinated for various diseases, it gave long term immunity, not 4 doses over months to lessen the symptoms.

Most vaccines are broadly comparable to the Covid vaccines in this respect, requiring multiple doses over months or years and often not entirely blocking infection. They are not perfect at preventing infections or symptoms in all recipients. Indeed, many important vaccines are significantly less effective than the Covid vaccines. Then consider the many viral diseases (e.g. human coronaviruses) that we do not yet have any vaccine for at all: this is because making vaccines is hard, not because we aren’t trying.

Every virus and every vaccine is different, but in broad strokes the way vaccines work is by building herd immunity in the population, enough to drop the reproductive number of a virus below 1 and prevent exponential spread through the population. (Of course, they also protect people individually. But you are the only person vaccinated you end up much less protected than if everyone else also gets vaccinated.)

Covid is a particularly tricky case because (a) we were starting from limited knowledge of a novel virus and designing vaccines based on new technology, (b) this virus has mutated quickly over time, evading antibodies from vaccines and past infections, (c) this virus, especially later variants, is exceptionally contagious making it hard to drop the reproductive number of the virus below 1 by any single intervention (including vaccines, masking, mass testing, ...), (d) Covid is a very serious diseases especially for the elderly, more than an order of magnitude more dangerous than the flu.

> what was then the point of getting everyone vaccinated

The point was saving literally tens of millions of lives.