[mozey]

As a backend person that used to be a front end person, there has never been a better time for using VanillaJS (or TypeScript), HTML, and CSS?

> someday pick one to learn in depth without worrying about it being replaced by the next hotness

So maybe the trick is to not use a framework. Like, I don't need a "framework" for backend dev, just a toolbox of good libraries.

The tooling around TypeScript is similar to a backend language like Go, a very different experience from writing JavaScript a decade ago

[KyeRussell]

If you’re working on a reasonably sized project “without a framework”, and haven’t effectively built your own, I’m very skeptical of the engineering practices at play.

[mozey]

Not using a framework doesn't automatically imply everything is built from scratch. Maybe I prefer calling libraries, instead of plugging my code into a framework. I could also implement patterns using the batteries included features of the platform. For example Web Components on the frontend, or a REST API on the backend built using the standard Go "net/http" package

[LAC-Tech]

Maybe Vue and Svelte are different. But something like react is "just a library", right? So they must be greenspunning their own framework as well, by their own admission.

So then ask yourself the question - which underlying tech of your in house framework is going to be more stable, supported, have better tooling, and be easier to reason about. I'd pick the DOM every time.

[mattmanser]

There's always one.