[runnerup]

There are so, so many cases like this with modern chemicals. Air fresheners in office bathrooms being another major “ghost” aggravation is another one.

In general I low-key proselytize the practice of removing excess stuff from air using HEPA and carbon filters to make a space smell better, rather than adding even more shit to the air (candles, scented sprays, etc). Also the benefits of using “free and clear” products. And using just water or water+soap with a rag to clean countertops/surfaces rather than weird chemical disinfectants that leave a microbial-toxic film of chemicals on the surfaces like Pledge.

I personally use marijuana-growing carbon scrubbers to clean my home air, see TerraBloom products. It’s made a massive difference for my family.

[wnkrshm]

I'm allergic to lemonenes ('citrus/orange smell'), the oil in the shell of citrus fruits. It's in everything. Deodorant, soap, detergent, various cleaners etc.

Every time there's some sort of "better smell" somewhere, where it's just "nice to have" I think: why? Why have this as well on top of everything?

[DoreenMichele]

Probably someone just trying to make a buck.

We all gotta eat and doing something "meaningful" often seems like the worst possible way to try to keep a roof over your head. Doing something seemingly trivial that you imagine won't be controversial and that will be a "nice to have" for enough people to pay your own bills probably seems to some people like the best way to get by in this world.

And they probably didn't think anyone was allergic to something so seemingly trivial and didn't think it could be a big deal in that way.

Edit: I'm on your side if that's not clear. I spend a lot of time wondering how we solve this and my hypothesis is we first understand why this crap happens and I think "we all gotta eat" is, unfortunately, a root cause of a lot of ills in the world today and I don't know how we fix it.

[eMPee584]

Your statement

> "we all gotta eat" is […] root cause of a lot of ills in the world today

hits the nail quite well I think. People are forced to generate income, even when that is to the detriment of other people or the environment. Natural resources are exploited without restraint, factories keep producing incompatible, low quality electronics and online services that harm mental health but create a profit are pushed onto markets with great vigor.

But with the advent of machines of human-level ability (physical & cognitive), within the next decade, human labour will not be competitive any more. This provides us a unique opportunity to overcome the traditional compulsions of our current growth-fixated economic framework and transition to a steady-state, cooperative economy (aka RBE) instead. That means leaving behind barter trade and local optimization for individual or company profit, paving the way to a good life for all, without time pressure and compulsory work. We (Open Source Ecology Germany) are actually working on getting funding (via PrototypeFund.de) for a cooperative economy simulation game.. To make it easier for people to imagine a post-capitalist economy and to start working on rules and organisational mechanisms for such a society. HN is invited oc ; )

[bootlooped]

I use a similar setup just for near my cat litter box. Almost totally eliminates pet smell. I have an AC Infinity fan I really like, it's very quiet on the lowest 3 of 8 speeds. The filter is just some generic brand. I never want to own pets without this level of air filtration again.

[TheBlerch]

No offense intended, but the best way to reduce any potential odors from your cat’s box is simply to pick it up regularly. Several times per day when my partner or I pass the box we scoop it and place the waste in a sealed bag in a sealed bucket. Takes 30 seconds. Never had issues with odors and the cats appreciate a clean box, just as any person appreciates a clean bathroom (more so for cats with their stronger sense of smell). And from time to time fully empty and wash down the box tray with soap. We’ve been shocked by how poorly many people maintain their cat boxes, which leads to the misconception that cats are smelly. They are incredibly clean animals, far cleaner than we humans. And we’ve been asked by some guests why our house doesn’t have that “pet/cat smell.” Empty the box regularly, you’ll be amazed by the results.

[rodent_rodeo]

Counter point: I don’t eat raw uncooked mice nor lick my excrement shoot. Then again maybe it’s because I have unrefined country barn cats who are lacking culture.

[germinalphrase]

Do you use the carbon scrubbers in-line with your HVAC or did you rig of some kind of stand alone system?

[runnerup]

Stand-alone. I got two cylindrical carbon filters and one fan. I slide the three components together and then stand them up vertically like a floor standing speaker.

Currently living in an apartment. It scrubs the air really quite fast. Helps a lot with kitchen smoke, pet smells, cleaning chemical vapors, and new furniture/plastic VOCs.

I also live in the middle of a bunch of chemical plants so it’s invaluable for the 3-5 leak events we experience every week.

One of our cats has learned how to turn our HPA300 fan to “turbo mode” by bopping the correct button with his paw. This year he’s been an excellent early warning system for nearby chemical plant leaks and I’ve learned to blindly trust his judgment so I just turn the scrubber fan to 100% whenever the cat turns up our largest HEPA air filter.

I recognize this sounds insane.

[bharrisonit]

Please indicate the correct kind of cat to complete the BOM for this system.

[runnerup]

My BOM:

- $199: TerraBloom 6" Silenced EC Inline Duct Fan, ECMF-150-S, 288 CFM, 36W

- $114: TERRABLOOM 6" AIR FILTER 24" LONG, 1.8" (46MM) THICK,

- $80: TERRABLOOM 6" AIR FILTER 16" LONG, 1.8" (46MM) THICK

- $3,000 (2022 prices): Siberian cat. Bought before recent price rises where the prices have apparently more than doubled, somewhat killing my dream of getting another Siberian kitten. Closely related to Maine Coon and Norwegian Forest Cat. Very very very playful and social. Enjoys playing friendly games of tackle with my Texas Heeler dog (50% Australian Cattle Dog, 50% Australian Shepherd), and often can be found entertaining itself throughout the day by training my dog. Naturally played fetch with plastic water bottle caps from a young age. Wants lots, and lots, and lots, of cuddles and play time. Our other Siberian, which was imported from Russia by American breeders, has had a very rough life and joined us late in her life. She has a very similar natural temperament. All three shed a truly totally insane amount of fur -- recommend Miele vacuums which are fully sealed with proper gaskets for maximum suction and minimum allergen leaking/spreading...Dyson strongly not recommended. He has had a lifelong fascination with dissecting electromechanical objects, especially air filters, and insists to supervise/assist with all maintenance work going on in the home. He learned that biting apple cables causes humans to stop using the laptop and destroyed $1,000 of laptop chargers when first generation MagSafe charges had non-detachable cables. Unlike his older sister, he has never had interest in killing/murdering animals, but enjoys removing all the legs from cockroaches and then playing fetch with himself by throwing the body around. Announces most of his poops with a loud meow and insists that the litter box be maintained daily. Enjoys training the humans, especially enjoys training the dog to get the humans to perform desired behaviors on his behalf. Contrary to marketing materials, neither Siberian is actually "hypoallergenic" in any sense of the word...maybe they're "less" allergenic but they still cause a lot of allergies and sheets/pillowcases need to be changed often.

I'd probably go 8" if I was buying today, I hedged a bit cheaper because I wasn't sure if the quality/performance would be what I needed.

[TheBlerch]

Thanks for sharing your air filter setup. How large is the space you’re filtering with your setup and how many months do the Terrabloom filters last before you have to change them? Also where’s the HEPA component of the system? (Agree about Miele vacuums with a HEPA filter insert, which is supposed to be changed annually. Mieles also last forever with minor maintenance).

[runnerup]

700 sq. Ft. So far 9 months with the terrabloom and no noticeable degradation of filtration. HEPA provided by 7 other filters, mostly Coways. Those need filters changed every 2 months.

Agree with Miele ease of maintenance, though they immediately stopped providing OEM parts (belts) for the uprights the day they discontinued them. They still sell the expensive bags for them though.

[tpxl]

> recommend Miele vacuums which are fully sealed with proper gaskets for maximum suction and minimum allergen leaking/spreading...Dyson strongly not recommended

Have you tried a water vaccuum? :)

[someweirdperson]

Is that a vacuum cleaner that can suck water, or are there vacuums that use water to clean the exhaust like scrubbers on ships do?

[pcthrowaway]

This is like poetry. First comment I've "favourited" on HN that isn't explaining some deeply technical thing I want to reference later

[hackernewds]

This made my week

[mschuster91]

> I recognize this sounds insane.

The insane thing is not your cat - cats are damn smart if they want to. The insane thing is that leak events happen multiple times a week and nothing seems to happen, or that residential zoning is right next to heavy industry in the first place. WTF?

[runnerup]

Agreed. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33427667 for a detailed explanation.

I also constantly rant about the zoning thing. Even if you believe people should be allowed to live where they want, there should be more information provided to help dramatically lower the price of that housing but the apartments cost about the same as apartments in cleaner parts of the city 60 miles away.

[fooblaster]

I think I'm going to try this. A little concerned about the wobbly-ness of the vertical stack of all of these given the weight of the filters. Seems like all these systems are intended to be ceiling mounted to grow tents. Wish there was a nice metal frame that could be used to floor-mount this setup a little more elegantly.

[Obscurity4340]

That is the damndest thing

[hammock]

What size did you get and what size is your apartment? Just looked up Terrabloom and I want these yesterday.

[runnerup]

I would personally get the silenced fans in the largest diameter you can afford / fits in your desired space because it will move larger amounts of air more quietly. The apartment was 700 sq. ft. I got the silenced 6" and it's reasonably quiet at most speeds, and not that loud at the highest speed -- putting filters at both intake and outlet greatly reduced the noise vs. just one side.

If you get the filters and fans in the same diameter they will just slip together without any additional hardware. But it will be quite wobbly. I used velcro (monoprice, laying around for wire-taming) to secure it to a vertical bookshelf.

My BOM: - $199: TerraBloom 6" Silenced EC Inline Duct Fan, ECMF-150-S, 288 CFM, 36W

- $114: TERRABLOOM 6" AIR FILTER 24" LONG, 1.8" (46MM) THICK,

- $80: TERRABLOOM 6" AIR FILTER 16" LONG, 1.8" (46MM) THICK

I'd probably go 8" if I was buying today, I hedged a bit cheaper because I wasn't sure if the quality/performance would be what I needed. This has been running for 9 months now with almost no noticeable degradation in performance, although I'm not currently quantifying it. Eventually I intend to install 3 VOC sensors, one outside the unit near the intake, one inside the unit, and one outside the unit at the outlet....to measure the VOC scrubbing efficiency curve over time and assist in deciding when to replace the carbon.

We've been running it 24 hours per day, usually about 40% but sometimes at the lowest setting (maybe 25%) and sometimes at the highest 100% setting.

After 9 months, it can still use it for point sources of concentrated smells like soldering and it captures 100% of the odors. And this is operating in a high-VOC environment near a lot (dozens) of chemical plants on our side of the city.

[birken]

I've been running a similar setup next to my litter box for about 2 years using "Vivosun" products, which seem like a cheaper knockoff version of Terrabloom.

The Terrabloom stuff looks higher quality and I can't compare it directly to Vivosun, but I've got no complaints about my Vivosun duct fan or carbon filters. I'm not necessarily suggesting one brand over the other, but just to add that you can run a knockoff version of this setup for a lower cost.

[ornornor]

I’m trying to picture the systems. They’re basically a carbon filter sandwiched by two fans, it runs the air through the filter and puts it back in the room? Or is it connected to a vent that exhausts the air outside (or does it filter one coming outside air?)

[TheBlerch]

Which Vivosun products do you use and how large is your space? Is there a HEPA filter in the system, or only carbon?

[lend000]

Love coming to HN and learning from the in-depth research of others on topics like these.

How important do you think the external fan is? (versus just placing it next to the modest airflow of a HEPA filter, as a sibling commenter suggested)

[runnerup]

Very important. “Non-ducted” suction doesn’t have enough static pressure to pull air through a carbon filter, will pull the air around it instead. In electrical terms, this would be like feeding a power sink with a large gauge copper wire and a medium resistance resistor in parallel. 0.01% of the electricity will pull through the resistor, 99.9% will come through the bare copper wire.

[rngname22]

the one major downside you'll find to terrabloom is how often you have to replace the carbon filters, but that's just true of carbon air filtering in general.

[phil-martin]

This really interests me, and I want to set up a similar system.

Can you describe the massive difference it’s made for family?

[runnerup]

I live in the middle of a lot of chemical plants. They have leaks constantly, like 3-5 moderate events per week.

Different chemicals cause disparate effects on my wife and I, but often manifests as anxiety, asthma, lethargy, general sense of being very uncomfortable.

Additionally we have two cats and a dog in a small apartment and sometimes they pee on the carpet/etc.

The carbon scrubber reduces the noticeable chemical plant effects down to just once a week, and greatly minimize that as well. Has completely eliminated stress caused by residual pet pee vapors.

We do have a bissell big green machine that we use regularly to clean the carpets and lots of HEPA air filters for dander, pollen, and other particulates.

But knocking out VOCs using a carbon scrubber has truly been wonderful. Works very very well whenever we get new furniture etc that offgasses for a week or so.

[hackernewds]

> marijuana-growing carbon scrubbers to clean my home air

Would you mind expanding on that?

[azinman2]

Just repurposed from a company called terrabloom. I use their fans with a duct as a diy solder fume extractor. It’s a very powerful fan.

[avanai]

OK I read this as carbon-scrubbers which grow marijuana. I dunno, maybe it helps oxygenate the air. Or maybe I haven’t had coffee yet.