[m463]

I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate - which has many whack-a-mole names). SLS is a surficant, and although not named in this study, it has been shown in other studies to interfere with mucous membranes (canker sores, etc)

I would wonder if that happens in the gut too.

It is in many things. toothpaste, shampoo, dishwasher and laundry detergents, and lots more

Since people are trying to avoid SLS, MANY tricky marketing synonyms have appeared to obfuscate ingredient lists:

https://chem.nlm.nih.gov/chemidplus/rn/151-21-3

[blibble]

> Since people are trying to avoid SLS, MANY tricky marketing synonyms have appeared to obfuscate ingredient lists:

this seems to be almost the definition of evil

people are trying to avoid something specific that makes them ill, so they try to hide it from them instead?

scum

[jamal-kumar]

The best part is all SLS does is contribute to the foaming of the toothpaste, that's literally all it does (Same thing in soap). It's just to give some psychological idea that foamy toothpaste cleans better. Something like a focus group in the 1950s came up with this ingredient.

[kragen]

no

it's a surfactant

surfactants emulsify lipids in polar liquids like water

such emulsification is crucial to many kinds of cleaning

because cell membranes are lipid bilayers surfactants also can cause cytolysis, maybe relevant if you're trying to get bacterial films off your teeth, and sds is commonly used for this in bio labs

surfactants also often foam but this is irrelevant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_dodecyl_sulfate

[jamal-kumar]

I could imagine there's better surfactants than that out there, you sound correct and now i feel my dentist is full of lies

[kragen]

research papers in biomedical fields often drip with disdain for 'practitioners' (doctors, dentists, nurses, etc.) because their knowledge of chemistry, epidemiology, genomics, etc., is so limited and often wrong

i'd like to see one of those statisticians save an abscessed motherfucking molar though

anyway your dentist is probably not actually being bribed by tom's of maine, he just knows a lot of his patients had less canker sores when they stopped using toothpaste with dish detergent in it

because guess what else has cell membranes

[egberts1]

Worse, these SLS gets the EPA Safe Product seal too.

https://www.epa.gov/saferchoice/safer-ingredients#searchList

[ornornor]

Welcome to late stage capitalism I guess.

[rubicon33]

I used to get canker sores every once in a while.

I cut out SLS by purchasing Toms toothpaste, and that helped a lot.

I would still get them though, maybe twice a year.

The thing that finally fixed it was almonds. I stopped eating almonds and I’ve never had a canker sore since.

[bluecalm]

No idea about canker sores but cold sores outbreaks (caused by the herpes virus) are linked to almonds consumption because they are heavy in arginine and don't have much lysine.

[hackernewds]

Same effect for me. SLS toothpaste gives me canker sores. Or at least prevents their healing

[bredren]

I also had to switch from SLS toothpaste. I used to use a thing called Rembrandt gentle, but they stopped selling that so I started using something called Squigle, which has atrocious branding but is just fine.

I have some amount of uncooked nut allergy and chocolate allergy that causes similar effects to SLS toothpaste. I'm still trying to figure it out.

I wanted to pass along this product I found a few years ago that really changed the game for me though, check out "Durham's Bee Farm, Inc. Canker-Rid."

This has been a problem for me since I was a kid, and all we had back then was Campho-Phenique and pain killing gels. Those things were / are awful. This bee stuff is absolutely amazing. 10/10 check it out.

[mwigdahl]

I'm also SLS sensitive. I found "Verve" toothpaste on Amazon. Reasonable minty taste, cheap, and SLS-free. There are options out there but you really have to search hard for them.

[chadcmulligan]

I've had mouth ulcers (canker sores) all my life.

Things I've found that cause them:

- Pineapple

- Lemon/Lime juice

- Chilli

- Sometimes Chocolate

Things that prevent/reduce them:

B6/B12/Folate

[ornornor]

Same here. Took me two decades to figure it out.

Hardly ever get them anymore since when it was a weekly occurrence before.

There aren’t many SLS free toothpastes. In Europe I found Elmex and in the Americas Sensodyne (not all, check ingredients)

[hgomersall]

There's apparently evidence that emulsifiers added to food are problematic regarding mucus membranes, as well as gut biome. We try to avoid foods that contain them as additives as much as possible (and they really are everywhere).

[mikewarot]

>I wonder about sulfates, specifically SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate

Dawn is my favorite dishwashing liquid of all times, SLS seems to be the first active ingredient[1]. What should I use instead?

[1] https://dawn-dish.com/en-us/how-to/what-dawn-is-made-of-ingr...

[goda90]

I wonder if it's fine if you thoroughly rinse dishes and wear gloves while doing the dishes.

[krageon]

Are you sick? No? Then what is the issue here?

[omniglottal]

Are organisms other than the individual in question attempting to survive unscathed where SLS exists in the water which goes down the drain and gutters and ultimately into watersheds? Your inability to recognize the issue upon narrowly imagining an individual human as the only potential victim does not eliminate it's deleterious effect on biomes and, by extension, humanity. Your invalidation is, itself, invalid. I hope this ability to rationalize away real problems by means of intentional ignorance is never applied to a human other than yourself, as others may recognize this as a genuine cognitive sickness. Please do not spread this illness.

[stephen_g]

The article references another article about SLS in toothpaste (unfortunately not accessible without paying) - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00016357.2019.1...

Just seeing that makes me want to switch toothpaste. There looks to be an 'Oral B Toothpaste Pure' that doesn't have SLS or colourants, might give that a go.

[wiml]

I stopped getting canker sores some years ago after changing toothpastes. Having read of SLS, I assumed that was the culprit — but no, I read the ingredients and my new "good" toothpaste also has SLS. So whatever the change was, that wasn't it. For all I know it wasn't even the toothpaste at all!

[stephen_g]

Interesting. Could have also been a concentration thing, if the newer one just had less of it. But yeah, could potentially have been something else completely!

[nerdponx]

Tom's of Maine has a "Botanically Bright" and "Botanically Fresh" brand that use some other dispersants instead of SLS, although who knows if that's any better: https://www.tomsofmaine.com/our-promise/ingredients/sodium-l...

[runnerup]

https://sci-hub.ru/https://doi.org/10.1080/00016357.2019.157...

Here's a non-paywalled copy of that same article.

[zorgmonkey]

Do you happen to know of somewhere in the US that sells that 'Oral B Toothpaste Pure'? Everywhere I can find that sells seems to be in Europe or Australia which I assume would mean paying a stupid amount in shipping fees.

[stephen_g]

It might have just been an Australian market thing? Unfortunately after I posted, when I went to try and order it from Chemist Warehouse (big chain here) it was out of stock, and lots of other places have it on their sites but out of stock too. So it seems to be discontinued even though Oral B still list it on their Australian site...

I’m trying a SLS-free toothpaste now from a local company (again Australian) called Grant’s, but they only have one with fluoride, which has a bit of an intense flavour. But it’s OK. They do seem to have a US distributor but I don’t know if it’s available anywhere over there. Sensodyne as the other commenter mentioned does have SLS free toothpastes but I wanted to avoid some of the other things in it (not that there’s strong evidence against their use, but one ingredient, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, is just a potential irritant, I wanted to avoid the sweetness, and the EU has stopped allowing titanium dioxide in food).

[ornornor]

Sensodyne is easy to find in the Americas and has at least one variant without SLS.