[sidewndr46]

Damn you are dense. It is on the employer to prove they are not affecting the wages of US legal residents as part of the LCA.

Bringing in foreign labor to a market implicitly lowers the wages of those workers. That is how markets work. Thus, there must be absolutely 0 residents already capable of performing the job. Otherwise the LCA is fraudulent. The only other possibility would be the employer is bringing in foreign labor to pay them a premium over legal residents. Which obviously no one does.

[dang]

Breaking the site guidelines like that will get you banned here. Please don't do it again. Your account would be fine without that first sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[renewiltord]

This advice is incongruent with that of any lawyer I have consulted on the subject (both from the perspective of an employer and as an employee). To those interested in the subject, you'll have a more accurate picture of the current legal climate from a lawyer. In my experience, it will be very different from this user's legal determination of whether one must prove the existence of 0 US residents for the job. As an employer, USCIS has never required this proof from us for a H-1B.

[vore]

Just as a clarification, the poster is talking about PERM for EB-2 and EB-3 visas which do kind of have those requirements, not H-1B.

[howinteresting]

> It is on the employer to prove they are not affecting the wages of US legal residents as part of the LCA.

False. All that matters is that H1B workers are being paid over the prevailing wage.

> Bringing in foreign labor to a market implicitly lowers the wages of those workers.

False. Almost every study done on this has shown the opposite.

> That is how markets work.

False. That is how the first lecture in Econ 101 says markets work. The first lecture in Econ 101 isn't real.

> Thus, there must be absolutely 0 residents already capable of performing the job.

False.

> Otherwise the LCA is fraudulent.

False.

> The only other possibility would be the employer is bringing in foreign labor to pay them a premium over legal residents. Which obviously no one does.

False. Depends on the employer. You have to pay H1B employees more than the prevailing wage for the job. Many employers target 80th or even 90th+ percentile wages for everyone, including H1B workers.

[qwytw]

> False. Depends on the employer. You have to pay H1B employees more than the prevailing wage for the job. Many employers target 80th or even 90th+ percentile wages for everyone, including H1B workers.

Technically not false, pretty obtuse though. Or are you claiming that e.g. software engineers/IT professionals on H1B visas are paid more than local with comparable skills/qualifications?

> Bringing in foreign labor to a market implicitly lowers the wages of those workers. > False. That is how the first lecture in Econ 101 says markets work. The first lecture in Econ 101 isn't real.

You might try telling that J.Powell he probably never went past Econ 101 (if you listen what he says).

[howinteresting]

I'm saying that people on H1B are paid more than the prevailing wage for a metropolitan region. Many employers pay all employees more than the prevailing wage for the metropolitan region.

Where has Powell said anything about immigration, especially the sort of skilled immigration that H1Bs are issued for, and the labor market?

[qwytw]

> Where has Powell said anything about immigration

He did mention that lack of labor supply is driving up wages.

> people on H1B are paid more than the prevailing wage for a metropolitan region

Because H1B visas are generally only issued to high skilled professionals? Sure. a software engineer on H1B is probably gonna earn more than the waiter or cashier in the shop downstairs. Are they gonna earn more than their colleagues who are citizens/permanent residents? Obviously not...

[sidewndr46]

> Many employers pay all employees more than the prevailing wage for the metropolitan region.

That's not how statistics work. You can't just have everyone paying above the normal wage. We'd call it the normal wage.

[howinteresting]

Do you understand that "employer" and "metropolitan region" are not the same? Some employers pay more, others pay less.

Anyway, I'm done with this. Go talk to a lawyer and see what they say.

[sidewndr46]

You do realize writing "False" doesn't make it an axiom?

[vore]

Regarding "Thus, there must be absolutely 0 residents already capable of performing the job.", I think on paper it's true but the burden on the employer to prove that there are absolutely 0 residents already capable of performing the job is really low: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/656.17

  (e)(1)(i) Mandatory steps. Two of the steps, a job order and two print advertisements, are mandatory for all applications involving professional occupations, except applications for college or university teachers selected in a competitive selection and recruitment process as provided in § 656.18. The mandatory recruitment steps must be conducted at least 30 days, but no more than 180 days, before the filing of the application.

    (A) Job order. [...]
    (B) Advertisements in newspaper or professional journals. [...]

  (e)(1)(ii) Additional recruitment steps. The employer must select three additional recruitment steps from the alternatives listed in paragraphs (e)(1)(ii)(A)-(J) of this section. Only one of the additional steps may consist solely of activity that took place within 30 days of the filing of the application. None of the steps may have taken place more than 180 days prior to filing the application.

    (A) Job fairs. [...]
    (B) Employer's Web site. [...]
    (C) Job search Web site other than the employer's. [...]
    (D) On-campus recruiting. [...]
    (E) Trade or professional organizations. [...]
    (F) Private employment firms. [...]
    (G) Employee referral program with incentives. [...]
    (H) Campus placement offices. [...]
    (I) Local and ethnic newspapers. [...]
    (J) Radio and television advertisements. [...]

[howinteresting]

This is required for PERM (for green cards) but not for H1B I believe.