[dmitriid]

It does.

A few years back a non-native English speaker presented an Erlang library called `coon` because he like this abbreviation of the word `raccoon`. [1]

The shitstorm from Americans (US and Canada) was unbelievable. Even though:

- most people on the mailing list where this was discussed never heard it used as a slur

- people in the states where this word was purportedly still used as a slur never heard it used

- several black people (both African Americans IIRC and a guy from South Africa) said they had no problems with the name (and promptly ignored)

The name of the library was changed.

Now. The question is: who decides it is a slur especially in our global world? Somehow, increasingly, it's the white Americans who end up being offended on everyone's behalf.

See also: the performative activism around master/main branches in git.

[1] Actual reasons: the name was available: https://github.com/comtihon/enot/issues/59#issuecomment-3651...

[felixgallo]

man, don't be ridiculous. 'coon' is objectively a long standing racist slur. That some people ("a guy from South Africa", ffs) claimed not to know this or notto have heard it personally doesn't make that untrue. I invite you to go to any black neighborhood in the US and chant 'coon' for as long as you can to determine just how performative the white americans are being. I'll take the short side of 30 seconds.

[dmitriid]

> coon' is objectively a long standing racist slur.

In the US. Not even the whole of the US, but in some parts of the US.

> That some people ("a guy from South Africa", ffs) claimed not to know this

I wonder who is being a racist now. "South Africa ffs" and "claim not to know".

The world is much larger than the US and is not required to view everything through US issues.

> I invite you to go to any black neighborhood in the US

So, to quote myself: "The question is: who decides it is a slur especially in our global world? Somehow, increasingly, it's the white Americans who end up being offended on everyone's behalf."

[toqy]

> So, to quote myself: "The question is: who decides it is a slur especially in our global world? Somehow, increasingly, it's the white Americans who end up being offended on everyone's behalf."

The black people on the receiving end of “coon” would be the decision makers in this case.

And besides that, during the googling process of figuring out if the name is taken the negative connotations of this one would come up.

Anyway I’m working on a new terminal string styling library that I’ve named Colored which should be of some interest to you.

[dmitriid]

> The black people on the receiving end of “coon” would be the decision makers in this case.

The black people in the United States, specifically. To put this into perspective: 1.2 billion people live in Africa alone, most of them non-white.

> Anyway I’m working on a new terminal string styling library that I’ve named Colored which should be of some interest to you.

And what exactly is the negaive connotation here for 1.1 billion English speakers (out of 8.7 billion people) who don't live in the US?

Once again. To put this into perspective since you both are being maximally culturally and racially insensitive to anything that is not US, here's a perspective of an English-speaking person from South Africa (I only quote parts of the messages):

- http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2018-February/0...

--- staty quote ---

I think you just need to tolerate different cultures better. A word that is deemed racist in one culture isn't the same in another.

There are many other uses for coon. Maine Coon is a type of cat. Coon is type of cheese in Australia. Go on - tell all of Australia to stop eating coon.

Next you'll be telling me to rethink the use of the work 'monkey' or 'gorrilla' for a library. Where does it end?

--- end quote ---

- http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2018-February/0...

--- start quote ---

I grew up in apartheid South Africa. This was a system of government that legitimised racist laws... I've been mocked and called racial slurs, served last in queues, talked down to. Bad words over there are 'kaffir' and 'coolie'. They're highly offensive words and given the nature of violence in that country, it's something you could be killed over. For me those words carry more significance than 'coon' ever will.

...

When I moved to NZ it was quite clear that those same words that were insulting in South Africa didn't carry over. Both countries speak English but the cultures are different, although SA has more languages. I noticed that there's there is a product called 'kaffir lime' grocery stores everywhere. Imagine having 'n...ga lime' in American/Canadian grocery stores. I got used to it after a while and it really doesn't bother me anymore. Instead of shouting out about the use of the word 'kaffir' in their product, I understood that different countries use words differently, and expecting NZ to change for me to accommodate my sensitivities would have been stupid.

--- end quote ---

Now. Are you also going to dismiss this as "some guy from South Africa ffs"?

If the US were a person, literally everyone would tell them to get its shit together and go see a psychologist. And not make the world assume that all issues must be viewed strictly through skewed American view.

[toqy]

> The black people in the United States, specifically

If Bubba goes on twitter and starts calling black people from Canada, Australia, Mozambique, or wherever "coon" they'll probably be offended by it once they figure out what it means.

> Now. Are you also going to dismiss this as "some guy from South Africa ffs"?

That wasn't me, so no i'm not. I'm not "being maximally culturally and racially insensitive to anything that is not US", I just answered your question with the simple and obvious truth. Honestly you're coming across as more of the "offended" type than the people asking for the name change in the first place.

And your quote isn't really helping you out. Comparing changing the name of a new software library to changing the name of a long standing physical product on shelves is dishonest when we could just do a simple apples to apples comparison.

If I consider a hypothetical situation where I named my project "Coolie" because I think it's a fun word and I used to like Coolio, then someone comes along and says hey that's pretty offensive to this subset of people on the other side of the globe for these reasons that will never affect you. I'd just change it. It would cost me nothing and probably net me some goodwill.

[dmitriid]

> they'll probably be offended by it once they figure out what it means.

If that person is from the States and/or uses the term specifically in the way it's used in the US.

And even then most might just shrug it away because the word doesn't bare any significant emotional or historical baggage. What's another idiot on the internet?

Meanwhile you keep forcing the US-centric view onto the world.

> I just answered your question with the simple and obvious truth.

Ah yes. The "obvious truth" apparently meaning "whatever is true for this specific US-centric view of US-specific issues and US_specific cultural baggage is the truth".

> Honestly you're coming across as more of the "offended" type than the people asking for the name change in the first place.

Yes. I'm offended by the US shoving its way of thinking down everyone's throats and expecting everyone to meekly comply because "it's the objective truth".

> And your quote isn't really helping you out. Comparing changing the name of a new software library to changing the name of a long standing physical product on shelves is dishonest

Of course what makes it dishonest is your monopoly on the truth, got it.

> If I consider a hypothetical situation where I named my project "Coolie"

You already said, I quote, "I’m working on a new terminal string styling library that I’ve named Colored which should be of some interest to you." which was probably supposed to evoke some kind of indignation from me.

I can only re-iterate: stop forcing your US cultural and societal issues onto the world.

> I'd just change it.

You? Maybe. As it actually turns out, Americans expect everyone else to conform to whatever they find offensive while never, or rarely, changing themselves. A great example: Pidora has been "actively seeking a new name" for the past 9 years, and counting https://wiki.cdot.senecacollege.ca/wiki/Pidora_Russian

[yamtaddle]

It also, "objectively", as you put it, just means "raccoon" more often than not.