[AnimalMuppet]

A direct comment that the US is committing genocide against trans people I would downvote, not for being political, but for being BS. At least one thing more is needed to be genocide - some level of being systematic.

Yes, trans people get beaten to death in numbers that are appallingly high. That's a tragedy and a disgrace on our society. Does it rise to the level of genocide? Blacks get shot in numbers that are appallingly high, too. Is that a genocide?

Preventing medical care? Are trans people being denied medical care for, say, cancer or heart disease? Or are they only being denied medical care for transitioning? Or are they only being denied medical care at public expense for transitioning?

If trans people are being denied medical care for regular medical issues, in large numbers, yes, I could call that genocide. If they're being denied care at public expense for transitioning, no, I probably would not call that genocide.

The problem with lowering the bar to calling things genocide in order to highlight a particular issue is that it lowers the bar for everybody else, too. And if everything's a genocide, then nothing is.

The problem with just hinting at things is it leaves the rest of us unclear on what, exactly, is being claimed. One of the things that most people on HN ought to agree on is that the details matter. If you're making vague claims, all we can do is talk in platitudes, which is unlikely to be effective.

[krapp]

Some would argue that there are indeed systemic origins and incitements in both violence against trans people and violence against black people, that there are elements within the US government (or at least political apparatus) interested in the oppression of both groups, and actively engaged in spreading fear and encouraging violence against them.

I mean, you can trace a direct line from the current moral panic about "groomers" through QAnon to Pizzagate, and it goes through one specific political party, and you can trace another line from police brutality against black people to Jim Crow and segregation to slave-catchers. The systemic links are there.

The only things people are calling genocides are things that look disturbingly like genocides. No one is arguing everything is a genocide.

[AnimalMuppet]

Strong disagree. You don't need "systematic origins", you need systematic violence for it to be genocide. Compare, say, the Holodomor or the Armenian genocide, to what's happening to blacks and trans people. They are not similar.

[slg]

> At least one thing more is needed to be genocide - some level of being systematic.

The two examples I mentioned were actions by the state. How is that not systemic?

[AnimalMuppet]

When it's done by the state, that's systemic, but it's not systematic. It's systematic when it's done to all trans people (or whoever), not just a few.

(Yes, "all" isn't actually necessary. Some large fraction, though. You can't have a genocide by killing 1% of the people. That's an atrocity, but it's not a genocide.)

[slg]

Sorry, I apparently didn't read that close enough to notice the systemic/systematic difference.

The UN definition specifically calls out that it doesn't have to be directed at the entire population. It also doesn't make any effort to define any "large fraction" that needs to be met before the definition can be applied. A culling of a percentage of specific population would likely still qualify, but the specifics of these things always varies depending on the context of the specific example being judged. However, it is clear that the UN definition primarily hinges on how people are targeted and the actions that are taken, not the scope.