[nicoburns]

> A couple have frameworks, and these frameworks are "try to do it all" types, complete with dependency injection and layer upon layer of abstraction intended to help engineers avoid "needless" boilerplate or what have you.

Isn't this generally the advantage of using open source frameworks? The mature ones have run into most of these roadblocks, and have a solution for it already. And the ones with good taste have escape hatches to allow you to easily bypass for the one they haven't got a solution for. I've heard bad things about Spring, but I'd put forward Laravel as an example of a framework that can do an awful lot for you if you want it to, and gets out of you way when you don't want to use it for a particular task.

[sidlls]

That is the value proposition of these frameworks. They work in some cases, and for services/applications where the complexity is generally low. They come with a big restriction, though: a very narrow, highly constrained ("opinionated") way to do everything. The escape hatches don't help--they still have to be within the context of the framework. And the gods help you if anything goes wrong and you have to troubleshoot something that touches any implementation detail of the framework.