[ownagefool]

I think there's a level of bullshit in both views. Many orgs are absoloutly mismanaged.

- At the lower levels you're getting shit done. Maybe. And if you are that's good, but if the shit isn't revenue generative, supporting revenue, or saving costs, then your job might actually be a bullshit job.

- At the higher levels, you hopefully know where your revenue is coming from, and your job is to maintain that whilst growing more. But if you have no operational ability, you're at the mercy of the first group, and might not actually have any real impact in the direction of the company.

The mismatch and lack of empathy causes the discourse. The devs typically have limited incentive to chase revenue, the leaders have limited desire to get their hands dirty.

Successful startups / growth companies are less likely to look like this, though funding can distort the relationship.