[sirwhinesalot]

Yeah option 2 is pretty much a no go because of what you said, so it has to be option 1. Ensuring bad generalizations don't happen would be the PO's job in that case I suppose. If there was an obvious solution we'd probably have converged on it by now, but at least where I work the PM/Dev relationship isn't really optimal in any way. Unclear tasks, pissed off devs, messy project, etc.

[ghaff]

Back when I was a product manager, I really was the product owner in so far as I was the point person for the field, owned pricing, attended product reviews, had at least a big say in launch decisions, wrote/reviewed external comms, coordinated with field engineering, etc. But, as I say, product management meant something different than it does much of the time with modern software. I never had any specific training on it.

Sometimes we did bring engineers in to have deeper technical backup for a specific discussion. Most of the value though was probably to provide some sense that we weren't just making things up.