[tambourine_man]

They aren't obvious on Windows either, are they? Keyboard shortcuts are mostly a pro user thing.

And don’t get me started on the way that OS inserts special keys. How do you insert ® on Windows? Alt-01whoCanRemember? On the Mac it’s usually something that makes sense like Option + R. Ç? Option-C. ƒ? You guessed it.

[psychoslave]

>They aren't obvious on Windows either, are they?

No, of course. But the gap between linux and windows for that matter is really smaller, thus my surprise. All the more with the way Apple is marketed as so great in ergonomics.

>Keyboard shortcuts are mostly a pro user thing.

Sure, I would not use a Mac had my employer not provided it. Like many coders out there I guess. But Apple is not willing to pay attention to the adoption ease for this population it seems. Or at least, it doesn't feel like this to me.

>And don’t get me started on the way that OS inserts special keys. How do you insert ® on Windows?

I use a bépo layout everywhere, with it the answer is obvious. It comes out of the box in linux distros. Mac and Windows require third party installation. The Mac one is a bit less functional/buggy. The worst issue being that my IDE won't recognize the combination for underscore. It's more a responsibility of IDE producer here certainly. But still, it makes the Mac UX far less pleasant from a dev point of view.

[tambourine_man]

I have little experience with Linux desktop environments, I use it for servers through the command line only, but the little interaction I had seemed more of an attempt to mimic Windows, so it’s no surprise it behaves similarly.

Most web and mobile developers I know use Macs, by far. Windows development is targeted to enterprise custom software, in my experience. It pays handsomely, but no one seems crazy in love with the stack.

I don’t think Apple has to cater to users of other platforms specially when it considers its conventions superior.

Regarding bépo layout, dvorak is already a tiny niche. Bépo is a niche within a niche. I wouldn’t expect wide support anywhere really.

[kitsunesoba]

I remember Mac-style mnemonic shortcuts for special characters way better than I do alt codes. If I were building a Mac style DE that's probably one of the features that would be added.

[tambourine_man]

Of course you do. Some of the things being discussed here are a matter of preference and/or habit.

But remembering a the first mnemonic letter vs 4 random digits is indisputably easier.