Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by blackgirldev 1297 days ago
As someone who grew up solidly middle class and went to a near Ivy private university and dropped out, I thought I was under educated about "life" and felt the need to enlist in the military.

There, I found out that people who grow up poor looked at me like I was a total idiot. There were daily reminders that I grew up privileged. That my brief stint as an enlisted scrub were not enough to understand what it meant when the military was your only option.

That said, I benefited greatly by not having an actual war during my tenure, having access to distance learning education, and finishing a degree there. I learned that I could get a super low rate VA mortgage as well. These things made a lot of difference and saved me at least a decade of working shit jobs to catch up with my peers after getting out of the military.

In contrast, my fellow enlisted from poverty never aspired to anything more than Chief (US Navy) (edit - nothing wrong with Chief Petty Officer - enlisted vs officer was a real class thing as I recall and it stays with me, sorry). That is, if they made it past the DUIs, economic/financial shame of buying expensive cars and crashing them, bad relationships with rampant abuse, etc.

As someone who could "see hope" because I wasn't mired in poverty's terrible view, I could actually take advantage of what military life offered.

I cannot adequately describe what it is like to be surrounded by people from poverty: to live with them, experience their pain vicariously, and not understand WHY they couldn't do what I was able to do.

The mindset is a real handicap. Changing your mindset is the core of moving from one place in life to another. I will never forget that lesson. Come to think of it, I know wealthy people stuck in detrimental mindsets. But that is another discussion.

2 comments

Yeah when I left where I grew up and finally had the space to synthesize my experiences in poverty, I began to call the attitude I saw when growing up "learned helplessness." When everything that can go wrong does, you learn to stop striving, as high expectations just lead to failure and shame (like the article's volcano anecdote.)

I was lucky. I was able to leverage the US education system to rise far above where I grew up, so I left at 18 when I was still young and hadn't been permanently ground down. Even though I've had a very successful career (beyond anything I could dream of as a kid, truly) I still struggle socially a bit in tech. So many American tech people grew up in the same milieu of upper-middle class American suburbia that their attitudes, (not voting but simply interpersonal) politics, and experiences are both homogeneous and yet extremely different from mine. So many smart people I work with and am friends with talk about their exhausting childhood being pushed from activity to activity that I can never connect with. And yes, sometimes I'm insensitive that friends of mine complain about parental pressure because my parents never had the resources to even send me to any of those activities. That I had parents in a stable marriage itself was a virtue where I grew up.

It's still crazy to me that I work with engineers who are second, sometimes third generation programmers. I had friends who couldn't even afford a computer until adulthood.

Yes that's the term "learned helplessness".

I am curious: what made you able to leverage the US education system? Was there a relative that influenced you to study? A teacher? Were you a part of a community program? What do you think got you out of the cycle?

I had just the right personality traits that made me a good fit for the education system. I loved to read, was fine at sitting still for a long time, loved learning without structure, and was not constantly comparing myself against friends. My sister was not so lucky and is having a hard time trying to enter the professional world.
Am I correct in understanding that you concluded that poverty is primarily a mindset issue?
No, they correctly identify it as learned helplessness which is a real behaviour common to many animals including humans. If you experience repeated misery, set backs, abuse, discrimination, and even just bad luck it conditions you to believe that no matter what you do you will always fall victim to the worst outcome so you just give up and stay where you are and endure it the best you can. That is not saying that the reason people are poor is due to that conditioning, it’s saying that they were conditioned to act that way because they were poor and now even if you provide them a way out they are so beaten down and demoralized that they will just stay where they are and not even try. It’s almost impossible for people who have not experienced that level of abuse to imagine what this feels like or follow the reasoning behind it.
Agreed. That's the conclusion I drew from my experience. It was painful to watch.

It is how I learned how people rationalize their world and the things they experience into some kind of logical end they deserve.

I would never say mindset is what makes a person poor.

Having grown up relatively poor (single-mother, section 8 housing) I read it as the commenter saying there is a mindset that accompanies poverty that you can only experience and appreciate having been poor. Not that the mindset causes poverty. This is true, in my experience.
How can someone read the post's article and write GP's comment, I wonder.
No