[rjzzleep]

This whole thing didn't start with Trump. I have family that is no longer eligible for ESTAs in the US and people like to put it all on the racists in Trumps admin like Miller.

Quite a bit of this stuff actually went through both House and Senate during the Obama presidency. The coup d'etat in Turkey happened in July 2016 and the subsequent purge and extra radicalization of Erdogan didn't just suddenly happen with Trump. Things like this are usually planned a while in advance. On top of that Trumps cabinet was a mess and took a while to get started, so it's inconceivable that it started during Trump days.

It doesn't really absolve Trump's administration from anything, but at the same time don't think that Obama's administration and by extension Hillary and Biden didn't have their hand in this crap either.

I'm quite concerned that some of these leaks that are now gone are for example the current CIA directors Burns' warnings about Ukraine when he was still ambassador to Russia back in the days. Or just unrelated things like documentations about Landmark or other cults that were removed from all other parts of the web due to lawsuits.

[mrtksn]

The coup of 2016 and many other independent things happened through the years, what having Trump in power instead of someone else changes how Erdogan navigates through these things.

Do you know that Erdogan today is a nationalist and pro Ataturk(Ataturk himself is not purely right or left wing) right winger? A decade ago he was almost the exact opposite and was targeted harshly by his current coalition partners and his primary rivals were his partner in crime. Go back one more decade and Erdogan was pro-West liberal. He simply navigates the conditions and the US president is one of the major conditions.

[rjzzleep]

You mean just like how you go back 1.5 decades and Putin was a pro-West liberal? Just like like how Biden with his almost 80% Obama cabinet navigated the Ukraine-Russia thing so nicely. Biden and Burns both called Ukraine the brightest of all red lines for Russia[1]. I'd like to post the wikileaks link for Burns' comment, but it's sadly gone.

Yes presidents are supposed to navigate these situations. But none of the past couple of administrations have. To try to pin it all on Trump is a cop-out.

[1] https://twitter.com/ImReadinHere/status/1500782351831662592

[FormerBandmate]

Russia invaded Ukraine. They have committed war crime after war crime. The people have a right to not want Russian puppets like Yakunovych

[mrtksn]

As I said, Trump was one of the factors how he navigates. Obviously, if the coup hand't happen or a meteor struck Istanbul we would have completely different political landscape. Trump was a very influential enabler for Erdogan and that's why all the pro-Erdogan media covered the US elections as if they are Turkish elections.