[fool1987]

https://samkriss.substack.com/p/the-internet-is-already-over

CW: gore in header image, about one page long. PgDn gets it out of view on a 1080p screen

Posted on HN a while back. It's slightly bleak in outlook but it was what finally pushed me to take serious steps to reduce my presence online. Got rid of all my apps that weren't strictly for comms and deleted most of my socials accounts. I already feel better for the change.

[lengomango]

I also really enjoyed this more recent post by the same guy:

https://samkriss.substack.com/p/welcome-to-hell

Basically he makes the argument (I think slightly tongue in cheek) that Twitter is analogous to a certain understanding of the Christian Hell, in that it's not a form of suffering you're condemned to, but a form of suffering you actively seek out. More deep social media commentary, but there's also some interesting tidbits in there about different theories of Hell, from ancient Chinese grave inscriptions to CS Lewis.

"Everyone acts as if the problem with Twitter is the other people, and the agony of having to look at their terrible opinions, but they keep saying the truth. Hellsite hellsite hellsite. The problem is you. The problem with Twitter is that you are a demon in Hell."

[fool1987]

Ooh thanks, I will have a read

[q-base]

I really enjoyed reading this. Thanks a lot for sharing!

It is bleak and in-your-face. But I like it.

I wholeheartedly agree with his underlying message, that all of it is just distractions, that may keep you from living.

[fool1987]

Exactly!

Interestingly it has prompted some reflection on my part about the whole remote vs on-site work debate: my entire contact with my colleagues with the exception of rare days on-site is via the internet. This makes me wonder about how the continued lack of genuine, regular face-to-face interaction will affect the business long-term; I already feel a distinct social divide between those of us who were at the company long term pre-WFH vs those of us (including me) who joined afterwards.

I definitely notice I engage significantly more with project that require me to communicate more with my colleagues and I can only imagine how that is amplified if I was actually in the same room as them (I entered the workforce in late 2020 and have never worked full-time in an office longer than summer internships).

The same goes for hobbies - things such as outdoor persuits with an in-person social aspect (e.g. caving, cycling, climbing etc) are millions of times more fulfilling for me than those that are equally social but online only (e.g. weekly video games and TTRPG night with my university friends).

Particularly eye-opening for me because I have very much grown up online and I guess I just didn't notice the difference between socialising online vs in person until I began to socialise online significantly more than in-person.

So yeah this article really inspired some introspection on my part! As you said: good to recognise distraction vs engagement; artificial vs organic.

[andreysolsty]

>> I entered the workforce in late 2020 and have never worked full-time in an office longer than summer internships

I don’t mean to dismiss your point entirely. Even as someone who prefers WFH I can’t deny there are some benefits to the office. However the grass is always greener. Pre-Covid my days in the office involved sitting at my desk, working alone. A short lunch with colleagues. More sitting at my desk working alone, occasionally jumping on a Zoom meeting. A lot of the time people are just getting things done and collaboration is minimal. Moving this back in office actually doesn’t make much difference, you’re just alone in a group setting. Obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone and all jobs but I feel it’s applicable to a lot of tech work.

[fool1987]

That is a very reasonable point and I have been trying hard to be objective and avoid "grass is greener" thinking.

From the short periods when I have worked in offices in-person, you are correct that the lion's share of the time is spent working alone on projects just as it is when working from home. However, where I did internships, I made friends among my colleagues and would eat lunch with them (and Fridays everyone went to the pub for a longer lunch); further, people would talk to each other in passing while we were working and there was a distinct feeling of "collective enterprise" and solidarity that helped to push through the inevitable tedious aspects of the work. Even though the socialisation wasn't often at all work-related, it made the work easier and more enjoyable. I do accept that this argument is dependant on working in a company whose social culture is suited to you, which is not easy to find.

All that said, there is nothing that can compare to WFH for "deep work," where you know what you are doing and just need time to get on with it withoug anyone breathing down your neck. For that reason, I don't think I could ever work full-time on-site and would always aim for a balanced hybrid model, if given the choice.

I guess a lot of it comes down to solitude vs loneliness: the line between the two can be distressingly thin.

[q-base]

Personally I underestimated the effect of small, on the surface unimportant, human interactions. I love being alone and I recharge from solitude. But the small encounters at the coffee machine or just smiling to a colleague is still human interactions where another human being recognises you and you have a brief connection.

During covid and WFH I did not have those and that had a noticably negative impact on my mental wellbeing. Even to the point that I thought everyone else was the culprit and if only I had to deal less with people then it would get better. But that was not the case.

WFH is of course different if you have a family around you, but I still think that there is an important factor in seeing other people even if it feels superficial. That was at least my own conclusion.

[LoganDark]

> I wholeheartedly agree with his underlying message, that all of it is just distractions, that may keep you from living.

For me, it's the opposite. The internet is my life. It's the only way in which I may live in the first place.

I have autism, ADHD, and DID, which prevent me from expressing myself properly in Real Life. However, I can express myself extremely well over the internet, with close friends, and do things that you can't do in real life (multimedia and such).

While I believe some parts of the internet can be just distractions, in particular social media like TikTok and Twitter, some parts are so, so important to me, like Discord, which I use to talk to friends. And it's not important because I'm distracting myself or subjecting myself to torture. It's important to me because it keeps me in contact with other real people that I get to talk to instantly every single day and express myself in exactly the way that I want.

It's not just a distraction.

[LoganDark]

CW: gore in header image, about one page long. PgDn gets it out of view on a 1080p screen

(Just warning those who might not want to see it)

[PostOnce]

The "gore" in question being a 400 year old painting by Rubens which is world-renowned.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_(Rubens)

Does this really need a warning, or should you just avoid the internet entirely if a Rubens is too much to cope with?

[fool1987]

It doesn't bother me particularly and I must admit I barely noticed it (hence no original CW) but there is more to other people than I could ever understand; if I can take thirty seconds of my time to prevent someone seeing something that makes them uncomfortable (especially given it is not exactly expected in this context), why not do so?

It costs me so little and could benefit others so much, the same as most other good manners in our culture, like saying "please," and "thank you."

[hallomisky]

It sounds like you think the painting's age means that it no longer has power, or at least, not power enough to warrant a content-warning. I would beg to differ, and argue that the fact that it still has the power to shock is what makes it "world-renowned".

[fool1987]

Thanks, I have added this to my comment so it is more visible.

[yackback]

I know that by god my entire user history is turning into this type of comment, but you should read Baudrillard's Simulation and Simulacra.

[thundergolfer]

If you loved that post, I think you might love No One Is Talking About This by Patricia Lockwood.

[rolandas]

That's an interesting essay, thanks for sharing.

[fool1987]

You're welcome!