[bluelightning2k]

From your tone, were you caught up in this? If so my condolences.

I, like many people, don't do crypto as I don't believe in the fundamental economics (no value creation). So we kind of want to see it fail as we would want a MLM business to fail.

But that's really not the same as having been burned. That really really sucks

[ipython]

I’m not involved - and own no crypto - but just as angry as the gp.

Why? I’m tired of these cryptobro idiots being held up on some sort of bullshit pedestal while people who truly get shit done have zero recognition and toil away in obscurity. It’s sickening - and 1000x more when that person is not just an idiot, but a malicious one to boot. Throw the book at them.

I enjoyed tbray’s blog post yesterday - one sentence in particular which I’ve oft repeated with crypto enthusiasts. Civilization is built on trust. You can’t “code” that away.

[cguess]

I didn't lose anything in FTX (nor do I have any crypto invested beyond some BTC change from a long time ago) and I agree with OP 100% (except the "life, or worse," I'm firmly against the death penalty but totally fine with letting him sit in a cell in Terre Haute for the rest of his life).

[sleepymoose]

> (except the "life, or worse," I'm firmly against the death penalty but totally fine with letting him sit in a cell in Terre Haute for the rest of his life).

Can I ask why you think this is better? I just did some quick math, and based on the average yearly cost of incarceration for an Adult Male in Indiana at $19,202[1], assuming SBF lives for another 50 years, that's $960,250 of tax payer dollars being used to store someonne that contributes nothing to society. So after he's stolen billions of dollars, we'll spend another million keeping him alive for absolutely no reason whatsoever. It doesn't make sense to me economically or socially. It doesn't even make sense to me as an individual, as I'd much rather just bite the bullet than spend the next few decades looking at concrete walls.

[1] https://faqs.in.gov/hc/en-us/articles/115005238288-How-much-...

[StrictDabbler]

It takes millions of dollars to go through the legal process necessary to execute somebody with any confidence in the judgment. It is vastly more expensive than life imprisonment.

It also costs a lot to go through that process and determine that execution is not justified, at which point we're still on the hook for imprisonment.

Putting somebody in jail for life is a bargain in comparison.

[1] https://www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/76th2011/ExhibitDo...

[sleepymoose]

Whelp, that answered my question! Seems like there's a lot of cost cutting to do across the entire board. I saw an article the other day on here talking about Riker's and it said that 1 inmate costs something like $550,000 annually.

[mrep]

Somewhat surprisingly, it is actually cheaper to just throw them in prison for the rest of their life then use the death penalty. Like 50% more to a whopping 1000% for California [0].

[0]: https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalt...

[jrochkind1]

Of all the reasons to be in favor of the state calmly killing people, to argue for it because saves money over the alternatives is truly chillingly terrifying to me.

[MonkeyClub]

> Can I ask why you think this is better? I just did some quick math, [...]

Others are discussing whether your math is correct, but the fact remains: it's murder, we shouldn't be killing people, period.

[1123581321]

Probably opposition to ending life and/or assigning a positive value to living while incarcerated, rather than making a financial calculation.

[kwere]

execution should be only for the "lost losers" of society, like school shooters & similia; rich and powerful people who value their own life, time & status would suffer immensily from being demeaned as "simple prisoners"

[thatfrenchguy]

Life in prison is so much of a harder sentence than death.

[kybernetyk]

>So we kind of want to see it fail as we would want a MLM business to fail.

Do "we" really? I like you don't see any value creation when it comes to coins, NFTs and what else is out there. But the idea of a crypto _currency_ is great. I just want the speculation to end and for people to use it as it was intended: As an alternative to government provided funny money.

[john_alan]

> (no value creation)

Do you know how Seigniorage works?

[spaceman0997]

FTX failing is not crypto failing. FTX failing just proves the fundament of crypto to be right - don't use centralized finance (yes, FTX is centralized finance).

[jqpabc123]

(yes, FTX is centralized finance).

All finance is centralized. De-centralized finance really doesn't exist --- crypto is just the latest example of this.

Before any crypto transaction who do the buyer and seller both turn to for a "fair market value" ? A *centralized* exchange.

The crypto market is controlled by companies like FTX. This still holds true even if you don't deal directly with these companies. Money equates to influence and control and crypto is no exception.

[spaceman0997]

What central authority controls Bitcoin?

> Before any crypto transaction who do the buyer and seller both turn to for a "fair market value" ? A centralized exchange.

That's the simplest way today - but definitely not a requirement, and doesn't make it centralized in any way. The centralized exchanges don't set the price (if anything, they suggest it) and they can't control transactions nor wallets. Who doesn't know the private key can't do anything with the funds on a wallet.

> The crypto market is controlled by companies like FTX. This still holds true even if you deal directly with these companies.

The "crypto market" - maybe. But they don't control the cryptocurrencies themselves in any way. This is like saying that because NASDAQ controls the $MSFT market they control Microsoft - of course they don't.

[jqpabc123]

But they don't control the cryptocurrencies themselves in any way.

Binance and Bitfinex have control over the one thing that matters most about Bitcoin --- the price. They exercise this control in the same way a central bank does --- they have access to an unlimited supply of "stablecoins" they can mint at will and use to buy/sell bitcoin as they see fit.

[spaceman0997]

The price isn't the thing that matters the most about Bitcoin...

What matters the most is that nobody can take my coins from my wallet if I don't want them to and that I can send the coins to anybody I want, however much I want and whenever I want.

[jqpabc123]

What matters the most is that nobody can take my coins from my wallet

Really? So it doesn't matter that the bitcoins in your wallet are now worth about 1/4 of what they were a few months ago?

Where did all that value go? My guess is a lot of it is sitting in fiat bank accounts someplace under the control of Binance and Bitfinex.

The numbers in your wallet may be the same but 3/4's of the value has been removed. You've been robbed and you don't even know it.

[setr]

That’s it’s utility as a currency. But the only reason you care about it being a currency in the first place is because of its purchasing power — value. Once it has value, then those properties are meaningful.

[infotogivenm]

I genuinely can’t tell if this is satire.

[djbebs]

Did you miss the existence of decentralized exchanges?

[jerojero]

Can you turn US dollars or Euros into crypto in decentralized exchanges? As far as I remember you could only trade crypto; one token for another.

That's useful if you have crypto, but how do you get into the field in the first place? As long as people aren't being paid in crypto and can't buy and sell things in crypto there is no way to get into the system without going through someone willing to exchange crypto for fiat. And this someone tends to be a centralized exchange.

[jqpabc123]

No. Did you miss the fact that centralized exchanges set the "market" price of crypto --- even for trades on decentralized exchanges?

Yes, you can set your own asking price for crypto --- but the reality is it's unlikely you can sell for significantly more than the "market" price set by centralized exchanges. And good luck finding someone who will sell to you for significantly less.

Most people won't surrender value just for the sake of "decentralization".

[nly]

So it really wouldn't matter if someone hacked https://app.uniswap.org/ ???

No way to steal funds doing that, hmmm....

[moomin]

Yes, but the vast majority of crypto is centralised, so the moral is don’t use crypto.

[spaceman0997]

It's perfectly possible to use crypto without centralized exchanges and many people do so. As "centralized crypto" continues to fail, people will use it in a decentralized way more and more. I don't see how the conclusion is "don't use crypto". People seeked simplicity, found out there is no free lunch - that doesn't mean they will throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[tpxl]

How do you enter or exit crypto? Either through a centralized exchange or you buy/sell from/to a shady dude in the alley.

[landemva]

This is the same as entering or exiting the gold coin market. Buy it or earn it or mine it.