[Firmwarrior]

Man, I'm surprised to hear that's the case

I assumed that Macs were mostly preferred because of their UX and relatively high-quality drivers/OS working well with sleep/wake. But if you put linux on there, you're giving all that up

Are there not any linux laptops out there with decent build quality and comparable perf/battery life?

[jm4]

Agreed.

Aside from the processor, there really isn't anything particularly compelling to me about the hardware. Apple's forte is how they integrate the whole hardware package with good software. The build quality is better than most but not especially great. That's not really saying much when you consider the low quality of so many others out there. The keyboards are terrible and I had serious reliability issues with the last couple Macs I used. The battery life probably comes as much from the OS as it does from the hardware. Support is generally acceptable if you pay for AppleCare, although you can sometimes end up waiting a couple weeks for certain repairs.

The Asahi team is doing great work, but I can't help but feel like Linux will always be a second class citizen on Apple hardware. I understand it still appeals to some people. It's not for me, though.

I'm using a ThinkPad now. It's ok. It's well supported in Linux and Lenovo still provides good support. I think the plan I paid for includes next day repairs. I like that it actually has a variety of ports unlike some of the others that cheap out. It's more repairable than most laptops out there. I will probably get a Framework next time or maybe System76. If I was into MacOS, I'd get a MacBook without a doubt, but I just don't like the OS very much anymore.

[SamuelAdams]

> Aside from the processor, there really isn't anything particularly compelling to me about the hardware

The trackpad. I've tried a dozen laptops. Thinkpads work great for linux support, as do Dell XPS 13's and the X1 Carbons. But the trackpads on all those pale in comparison to the accuracy of an Apple Trackpad. It's accurate, precise, I can select text anywhere easily, double click works reliably and consistently, and the mouse feels like it is directed exactly where I want.

Here's a recent example of a linux distro using libinput: https://old.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/sp3yfe/libinput_...

There are some good suggestions for improvement in the comments, but the fact remains it is always more frustrating to use a trackpad on a non-apple device.

Have the state of trackpads changed in the last 6 months for other laptop vendors? If so I'll seriously consider switching but in my experience, even on Windows, those other laptops don't even come close to what Apple offers.

Other sources about the linux trackpad problems, I've not tried these changes but allegedly they're supposed to come close to what Apple offers:

https://www.gitclear.com/blog/linux_touchpad_update_december...

[Wowfunhappy]

> Aside from the processor, there really isn't anything particularly compelling to me about the hardware.

Yeah, but I find the processor pretty damn compelling.

And then the rest of the hardware is—if not remarkable—very solid, so the computer is an enticing package.

[cesarb]

> And then the rest of the hardware is—if not remarkable—very solid, so the computer is an enticing package.

A bit offtopic, but I've been a bit annoyed lately that we have to treat the computer as a package. Why should my choice of keyboard (Brazilian ABNT2) and trackpad (I want three physical buttons) restrict my choices of CPU or screen?

[Wowfunhappy]

Has this ever not been the case for small form factor laptops? I think it's mostly just a practical reality of manufacturing. Although I have been really impressed with what Framework is doing!

[MetricExpansion]

As a long time Mac user, I had long been used to people saying things along the lines of “I tolerate their hardware to use macOS” especially re: the terrible laptop designs.

Now with the release of the AS machines, I hear the exact opposite sentiment very frequently, especially on techie sites. It’s certainly been an interesting reversal. I for one like both macOS and the AS hardware, and (minus the somewhat higher bugginess with recent releases) couldn’t be happier about the state of Macs.

[csomar]

I am using Dell XPS 17". It is relatively decent and you can have two harddrives (with a RAID setup but I was lazy to hack that).

It is certainly not a macbook but I do get 7-10 hours of battery life doing Rust development.

[foobarian]

> of their UX and relatively high-quality drivers/OS working well with sleep/wake.

The hardware integration UX is the good part of Macs. The UI UX is inferior to Linux IMO. I'm not referring to any one DE in particular, just the fact that they are so customizable. I wish I could have Windowmaker again on hardware as rock solid as my MBP (and all the integration bits solved, i.e. audio, wi-fi, plug-n-play, multiple monitors, etc.).

[tpush]

> Are there not any linux laptops out there with decent build quality and comparable perf/battery life?

None that I've ever seen, especially now compared to M1 Macs.

[ZiiS]

The are not any Windows laptops with comparable perf/battery life either.